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Wisker Pole

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/14/2001 : 21:43:07

I am thinking of adding a wisker pole to my 250 WK. Has anyone done this and what was your experience.

Thanks
Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2001 : 16:09:42

There is no doubt that adding a pole would be a great help...not sure if the pole that I use on my w/b would be the right choice for the wing so will defer to wing owners to suggest what is working well.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2001 : 16:45:17

Like Arlyn,I have a water-ballast model. I find that the Forespar HD 6-12 works well for my 110. You might need to move up to a larger model if you are running anything over a 135 genoa. Of course, larger whisker poles get pricey real quick.

I use four feet of genoa car track on the front of my mast to mount a sliding ring. A fixed ring will make it difficult at times to keep your whisker pole parallel to the water. The HD 6-12 is a twist lock pole . . . works well for me.

Mark Melchior
C250 "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2001 : 16:57:39

Mark, do you need a topping lift with the pole? Can you use the jib halyard as the topping lift? How did you attach the track to the mast?

Thanks for your help.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2001 : 17:59:19

This Forespar HD 6-12 whisker pole is relatively light and has no provision for a topping lift. Sail shape is fine without it. I attached the standard 1" aluminum track to the mast with stainless steel screws (anti-seize paste was applied to the screws). I had to tap the mast to accept the screws. A small tap & die set is a good investment for your boat . . . used it on my masthead to mount the windex extension arm.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2001 : 16:42:48

Mark, thanks for your help. That sounds like a doable job even for one whose workmanship skills are limited to such things as painting the bottom and making a chart rack.

Next year when the boat is in the water, I'll let you know how it came out.

Steve

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2001 : 23:14:19

Well, I'm four for four as far as weekend sailing goes. It's been very windy here in N. Fla. and I am passionate if not obsessed. Did three day sails and last weekend took the opportuity to go overnight. Last two sails were solo.

On a run up the river I was wing and wing. Had an accidental gybe that busted the head off a traveler bolt. That was using the AutoTiller. Since then I installed a Tiller Tamer like I had on the C-22 and I like it a lot better. I actually did a three mile tack without having to touch the helm.

But while I was running wing & wing the jib kept spilling. So I finally wedged my boat hook to the tabernackle and the clew. It's the telescopic type and worked pretty good. But I guess I should invest in a real wisker pole!

However I still have one problem. I've not been able the keep the roach on the jib from flapping. No matter where I moved the cars for the jib sheet blocks it always flapped. Either broad reach or tight hauled. Seems like that would loose efficiency. My sails on the 22 never did it. Any suggestions? There is a leech line on the sail. But that just made it bag more.

Only other problem I have right now is the porta-pottie leaks. I kept noticing this foul odor in the head. When I returned to dock and went to empty it, there was sewage in a the place I assume was to hold the extra deoderant. Any suggestions on a fix for that?

Every thing else going well. On my return trip last Sunday I was at the end of that three mile tack I mentioned when I heard a whistle blowing. In the middle of the river (I'm talking about the St. Johns where it is big and wide) was a fisherman with his boy waving his arms up and down. So I came about and went back. Sure enough he needed a tow. So I towed him to the ramp close to where I had just been. Did this without ever cranking my motor. In fact I didn't crank my motor at all until I had to back into my slip!

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL C-250wk #364

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2001 : 16:32:52

I would check to be sure the top is tight to the bottom. If you empty it and fill both top and bottom with clean water then tip them upside down, the leak should be apparant. I replace mine with a larger unit. It was one of the best improvement that I did to the boat.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2001 : 16:49:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I replace mine with a larger unit. It was one of the best improvement that I did to the boat.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve,

Like you, we purchased the larger (~6 gal.) Thetford. It has been THE most applauded upgrade on the boat. Try surviving a weekend with more than two or three adults on the boat using the standard size porta-pottie. I had to swim the small one to shore one time when it had filled up at midnight (don't ask me what I did with it<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2001 : 20:09:02

We had a similar experience with only 2 adults on the boat for a long weekend. It didn't take a brain surgeon to know that the upgrade was important. Someone suggested rather than cutting the bottom off the hanging locker door in back of the pot to put it in at an angle. That was an excellent piece of advice. It is truly amazing the difference that the larger unit makes.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

DMS
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2001 : 12:52:19

After an evening of 6 adults drinking their choice of beverages, we quickly realized that the 2.5 gallon porta-pottie was limiting. Just last weekend I installed a 6 gallon porta-pottie upgrade.

I installed it at a slight angle to allow the closet door in the head to swing freely. The angle at which the porta-pottie is installed actually works out well. When heeled on a starboard tack, one can place a foot against the port side for better seating stability. On a port tack, one can place a hand or lean a shoulder against the side wall to increase the seating stability.

We are definetly happy with the upgrade and it was very easy to install.

Doug (Fortuity, C250wk #411)

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DMS
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2001 : 13:15:13

Steve,

I had used a ADJ 7-17 whisker pole at first, but now I use a ADJ 6-12.

The ADJ 7-17 whisker pole is heavy compared to the ADJ 6-12. In light winds, the ADJ 7-17 pole required a topping lift from the spare jib halyard to keep it up. Since I single handed sail often or sail with others that don't know how to sail, I found dealing with the heavier pole awkward to the point I used it less and less.

Since I have switched to using the ADJ 6-12 pole, which is very light and easy to move around, I use it more frequently than the other pole. However, when the wind is blowing a good breeze, the lighter pole will have a tendency to bend. During a stiff breeze, I sail at a broad reach instead of wing to wing.

I should have probably preferenced this response by saying that the area I sail around is known for it's light winds, so a pole that works well in light winds, works best for me.

Doug (Fortuity, C250wk #411)

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2001 : 14:46:52

Mark, did you buy your track from Forespar. I note the one they seem to sell is 1 1/4 inch. Their fitting is for that size track. Which mast fitting did you use?

Thanks.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2001 : 15:34:15

No, I bought the 1" track in 2' sections and the adjustable ring from West Marine. The ring "cars" can get very expensive. I bought the reasonably priced one.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2001 : 11:26:02

Ben, adjusting the leech line on your jib should stop the roach from fluttering. That’s the purpose of the leech line. It will have the effect of giving the sail a little bit of a pocket, but that should not be a problem, so long as it quiets the roach. The fluttering roach significantly reduces the efficiency of the sail, and whatever adjustment you have to make to the leech line is worthwhile. The thin little leech lines and the little plastic cleats that sailmakers use don’t hold very well, and if you just lay the leech line in the clam cleat, it will frequently pull right through the cleat. It helps to tie a little slip knot in the leech line, to keep it from slipping through the cleat. Using a slip knot makes it easier to change the adjustment, if necessary, although I don’t think it’s necessary to change the adjustment very often, once you have found an adjustment that stops the roach from fluttering. Even though they are small, leech lines don’t seem to be particularly fragile. I have stressed the heck out of the leech lines on my two jibs for over twenty years, and have never broken one.

On the subject of whisker poles, I have never liked the standard ADJ 6-12 pole. The twist-lock adjuster seems to me to be unreliable, often collapsing under stress. At other times, they seem to jam, so that you can neither open nor close the pole. I bought an adjustable paint roller extension at Builder’s Square for about thirty dollars. It adjusts from 6 to 12 feet, and is made of aluminum and fiberglass. Instead of the twist-lock adjuster, it has holes drilled along it’s length, and a thumb-button that allows a pin to be easily inserted into one of the holes, to adjust the pole’s length. Because of the pin, the only way the pole will collapse now is if it breaks. I attached standard, spring-loaded whisker pole fittings to both ends of the pole. You might need to grind down the whisker pole fittings a little bit, to make them fit. It is more reliable, and works much more easily than the ADJ 6-12 pole, and is at least as strong, but, even if it breaks, I can replace it three or four times for what one of the other poles costs. The fiberglass part of the pole is painted bright yellow, and the ends are trimmed in black. If the yellow offends you, or clashes with the color scheme of your boat, you can easily paint it any color you want with a can of spray paint.

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2001 : 11:46:53

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
On the subject of whisker poles, I have never liked the standard ADJ 6-12 pole. The twist-lock adjuster seems to me to be unreliable, often collapsing under stress. At other times, they seem to jam, so that you can neither open nor close the pole. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I use my Forespar HD 6-12 (twist lock) whisker pole quite alot in winds from 5-15 knots. I've never had it collapse under stress or jam. It is now two years old. If it ever starts to develop any locking problems, I'll by the inexpensive rebuilt kit from WM.

Steve does have a point regarding the cost of the Forespar pole v. the home-grown solution.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - marktm on 11/08/2001 12:39:52

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2001 : 13:55:01

Steve,how did you attach the fittings to the pole? What did you grind the pole with to reduce its diameter?

Thanks
Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2001 : 13:08:35

Steve - I didn't grind the pole. I ground the end fittings down, so they would fit into the ends of the pole. I ground them down with a bench grinder. The plastic is easy to grind. After inserting the fittings into the pole, I drilled a single hole through the pole and each fitting, and through-bolted it with about a 3/16" bolt.

Mark - The Forespar pole that I bought with my boat worked o.k. for 2 or 3 years, but the problems began after that. If I had known a rebuild kit was available, I would undoubtedly have tried it, but I don't know if rebuild kits were available at that time. I live in Dayton, Ohio, where only the most common parts for sailing gear are available in the marine stores, and my mail order catalogues did'nt offer rebuild kits. So, the only options I knew of at the time were to buy a fairly expensive new pole that only served me well for 2-3 years, or find a functional alternative. But, my pole can be built for less than the cost of a new Forespar pole, it is equally as strong, it has been problem-free, and, if it breaks, I can make a new one in about a half hour for about $30-35.

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2002 : 23:58:13

I ordered and tried the forespare adj 6-12 twist lock pole. I bought the pole to begin racing, I soon found that I needed 13', so I took the pole back and got a 7-17'. It is heave duty enough but not to Heave to do the job and has worked perfect in the first threee races that I entered, I owe 3-1st place finishes in the Novice Regatta that I sailed in about 3 weekends ago to the whisker pole. If you are just cruising and not concerned about maximumn performance I agree that the 6-12' adjustable twist lock is the right one and I think is made well enough to withstand winds that would be practicle for wing on wing sailing. It is your money.....
Steve Steakley
Moon Chaser #385

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acierno
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2002 : 08:02:20

sorry to perpetuate the dual thread...what is the model of the 6 gallon porta pottie you guys speak of, and does wal mart or like stores carry it?

ron

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MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2002 : 10:45:32

I bought a Thetford 'AquaMate 885 MSD' from a local marine supply store. I've never seen the larger porta-potties like this at stores such as Walmart or K-Mart. I paid in the neighborhood of $135 for it . . . yes, very pricey but worth every penny.

Capacities:

AquaMate 885 (UPGRADE UNIT) --
Fresh water holding tank: 3.2 gallons
Waste holding tank: 6.1 gallons
Approximate uses: 62 (per manufacturer)
Length: 16 15/16"
Width: 15 1/8"
Height: 15 15/16"

Porta Potti 735 (STANDARD EQUIPMENT) --
Fresh water holding tank: 2.6 gallons
Waste holding tank: 2.6 gallons
Approximate uses: 27 (per manufacturer)
Length: 15 1/16"
Width: 13 9/16"
Height: 12 1/8"

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

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