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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/31/2006 : 10:36:50

Those of you who have read my posts over the years have probably guessed that I don't generally shirk at buying new equipment for my boat if it will make some aspect of sailing easier or safer, particularly if it involves single handing. Two years ago I bit the bullet and bought a ProFurl Snap Furl furling system for the head sail. Knowing that there a cuple of companies that make furlers for gennakers ("code 0' continuous line furlers), why not a similar device for my asymetric spinnaker. Low and behold a Euro company called Bamar (bamar.it) makes a very practical furling system for asymetric spinnakers. The advantage of such a furler is obvious to anyone who has used a jib furler. You don't have to leave the cockpit to set it up and fly it. Perfect for the single hander.

I have also been considering a bow sprit for some time as a means of getting the asymetric out farther in front of the boat, which enables the boat to sail more directly downwind than is normally the case with an asymetric spinnaker. As it turns out, the Bamar spinnaker furler works best when attached to a sprit. Again a quick web search turned up Seldon Spars, which makes a very nice retractable sprit which can be fitted to our boats.

So, there it is. Something for you all to think about over the winter months. I haven't gotten down to pricing these systems yet but I will do so over the winter. Whether I purchase or not remains to be seen. Both items are certainly worth a consideration though.

Al Eckhart
GALLIVANT #5801
'88TR

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 10:57:14

I was looking at a J24 with a retractable spar. Very simple system. I think its do-able on our boats.
Lets try it on your boat first Al. I have a hole saw you can borrow.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 11:49:20

Cool stuff Al. Here is a link. CHeers.

http://www.bamar.it/new_pdf/news/newsletter_gb_09_04.pdf

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 14:42:31

Dennis: Yeh, real cool stuff. I found another spar manufacturer besides Seldon that makes a retractable sprit. Charleston Spars (charlestonspars.com). They also sell the Facnor Code 0 furler. I've querried them about prices.

Mike: These sprits don"t require any cutting. They mount on the deck and slide through a collar. They do require some drilling however.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 14:47:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 I was looking at a J24 with a retractable spar. Very simple system. I think its do-able on our boats.
Lets try it on your boat first Al. I have a hole saw you can borrow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You sure that wasn't a J105. The 24's are pretty strict one design and the boat would lose its value in a heartbeat with something like that.

Al - I don't want to imply that I want you out of here, quite the contrary. But if adding a sprit is something you are considering, it might be cheaper to switch to a boat that is designed for one. I would consider a structural change like that to be a rather large and expensive one.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 14:48:23

Hi Al, why do you need a retractable? There is a bowsprit in the tech tips that looks good and is made from Home Depot parts. Cheers.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech250/rypkema.asp

Hi Duane, from the looks of this bowsprit, there is not much in the way of structural issues...it looks a little crude but functional (sorry to the owner about the crude thing) Cheers.

Edited by - djn on 10/31/2006 14:56:57

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 16:37:33

On my little lake, there are 50 sailboats on mooring balls and another 100 or so on the hard. I think my old '81 looked pretty good bobbing around out there on the front row. I had a lot of nice comments over the summer.
I think the only thing that could enhance my pride of ownership would be a spar, a poop deck, better cannon placements and possibly some of that fancy woodwork around the edges to give it more of a pirate-ey look.
There was a comment on another thread about what Cap'n Jack Sparrow might arrrgghh, say about a wheel vs a tiller on a sailing vessel such as ours. I say you can't arrrrrbitrate with a pirate, you shoots first then asks questions later....no sorry, that was some cowboy. But you savvy my point, a spar would be a good addition, especially if its retracted and or stowed when sailing in a competition where people care about rules and such trivilalities.

I'll have to take another look at that boat that I thought was a J24 with the spar. It was a 24 or 25 footer, new, more of a racer than cruiser, and had a black retractable spar on its starboard bow just below the rubrail.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 16:53:21

Duane,

These sprits require no structural changes. A collar is bolted onto the deck near the stem head and a ring is bolted on behnd the anchor locker hatch. A 6 foot aluminum spar, 3.2" in diam, slides through the collar out about two feet in from of the bow. The tack line and block are mounted on the end of the sprit and flown from it.

If you don't have an asymetrical spinnaker you would not need one of these. They are useful in that an asym allows you sail "off wind", broad reaching. You cannot sail directly downwind because the main blocks the wind from the sail. The farther the sail is moved foward the less wind blockage there is and the more directly downwind the sail can take you.

The only reason I would get one is to add a furler for my asymetrical spinnaker. A sprit is recommeded for these furlers, to get them away from the headstay. You only need about 6 inches so a bow roller might suffice if it's long enough. Somehow the retractable, removable sprit has more appeal to me since it adds another downwind dimension.

I just recieved an email from Charlston Spars. Their sprit for a 25 foot boat is $615.

On the other hand, I might be able to fabricate the bracket from PVC and use my whisker pole as a sprit. I don't no if it will take the strain though.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2006 : 17:15:41

I just received a new issue of Practical Sailor. In this month's issue, they reviewed a Beneteau 10R and it has a retractable Bow Sprit.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2006 : 07:53:53

You will note that the trend in hot race-cruise boats like the J105s, Beneteu 10R, Columbia 30, C&C 115 etc, is for small headsails of not more than 110%. Large overlapping headsails have not been in use in he Americas Cup in years. To compensate they are using asymetric sails -gennakers, reachers, spinnakers, which need to be out in front of the boat, thus the retractable sprit.

The advantages of such a device have prompted Seldon and Charleston Spars to fabricate removable sprit kits for those of us who have asymetric spinnakers. Retractable is more a misnomer since they are designed to be removed when not in use, and stored on deck much as a spinnaker pole.

The sprit becomes even more useful when you consider the additonal advantage of a furler for the asymetric spinnaker/gennaker. These allow you to furl and deploy the spinnaker just like a headsail furler. Several companies - Facnor, & Bamar are two, make these but they must be used in conjunction with a sprit to get the drum away from the headstay. As a single handed race and cruiser, this is the application I am interested in, since it allows me to deploy the spinnaker without having to leave the cockpit.

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/01/2006 07:56:02

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2006 : 08:25:45

Jim Baumgart should describe the furler he has for his bigger (155?)cruising headsail... With no tube of any kind, it can lie down on the deck when not in use--he hoisted it with a halyard and then could unfurl and furl. It appeared better suited for a light-air sail that wouldn't need too much luff tension--he exploded a block at the mast base trying to tension it while I was out with him. (Little plastic balls flew everywhere!) I don't know whether the forestay caused any problems with it, nor do I know if it's a product that can be bought now.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/01/2006 08:30:14

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2006 : 15:58:26

The spinnaker-gennaker furlers I have seen all collapse into a sail bag after the sail has been furled. The drum is then removed and placed in the bag. The furler can remain deployed for the duration of the cruise or race if desired.

I really like this concept but am luke warm about the sprit. Does anyone have any suggestions for an anchor roller that would extend out at least 10" forward of the headstay? This would most likely work as well, keep the fore deck uncluttered and give me an anchor rolle to boot. Even if I had to add a bob stay to the roller to counter-act the upward tension, the anchor roller would be better.

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/01/2006 15:59:34

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2006 : 16:40:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Does anyone have any suggestions for an anchor roller that would extend out at least 10" forward of the headstay?... Even if I had to add a bob stay to the roller to counter-act the upward tension, the anchor roller would be better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What about CD's combination roller/stem fitting? Your '88 already has the stronger stem fitting, but CD's product would appear to give you the extra support for the furler. Just add a bail at the roller bolt to attach the furler. (?) I don't know how far out it extends...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/01/2006 16:43:30

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2006 : 20:09:47

Our anchor lockers would seem to make adequate sprit reinforcement on the deck difficult which means a dolphin striker would probably be needed. If your bow eye is adequately reinforced it might be an adequate anchor point.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/02/2006 13:06:28

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:17:19

I don't believe the CD combination stem fitting will allow attachment the furler drum first and formost, and secondly, the requesit 6" in front of my head sail furler drum. It needs to be a separate anchor roller that will extend beyond the bow. I would think the overall length would be about 18 to 20". Any suggestins as to make and model?

I agree Frank. The bow eye is the way to go for this application.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:52:07

For a bowsprit, how about fitting a C27 tall rig teak sprit to the bow.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 13:01:04

Don,

Where'd you find the teak "thingy". I want one.

Edited by - on

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