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sailing to Hawaii from SF

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sideman707
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/01/2006 : 16:17:51

I have a 81 swing keel tiller std rig and want to know if anyone has sailed one of these to Hawaii from the west coast ?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 16:23:47

No but someone sailed a Potter 19 from SF to Hawaii. My friend sailed a Cal 28 from San Diego to Hawaii. He's a tough, single handed sailor. He sailed in April. He got his butt kicked and sold the boat when he arrived and flew home.

Edited by - JimB517 on 12/01/2006 16:24:42

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 16:40:56

I have never actually read the account, but I've heard the a person sailed a c25 around the world. It might be myth....I don't know. Cheers.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 17:36:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 I have never actually read the account, but I've heard the a person sailed a c25 around the world. It might be myth....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There was a modified C27--that wasn't a myth. There have been many discussions about the C-25 for blue-water passagemaking, and most sane people agree that it's only for those who won't be hurting anyone else if they don't get there, or worrying anybody to death during the attempt. If you're caught in a Pacific storm with no place to hide and no rescue possibilities, the marginal capsize ratio, transom-hung rudder, floppy keel (in your case), pop-top, lack of a bridge-deck, exposed engine, light-duty rig, modest chainplates, flimsy portlights, sail locker that's open to the bilge, unsecured hatchboards, miniscule tankage,... etc., etc., make the C-25 a good coastal cruiser and not a blue-water passagemaker. A friend helped his friend make a passage from Antigua to Mystic, 600 miles off the East Coast in a 36' Cal (or something like that) and still doesn't like talking about it! (They spent several days in a storm, with the cockpit full to the gunwales much of that time and a leak that developed somewhere in the bilge.)

Sorry--climbing down from my soapbox... BTW, welcome Larry--there are plenty of good things to talk about with these fine little boats!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/01/2006 17:57:12

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 18:46:58

Much better to be here, wishing you were on the Pacific sailing to Hawaii, than to be in the middle of the Pacific, wishing you were here.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 20:14:00

Dave,
You might talk me out of my decision to buy one!!!!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 21:08:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Dave,
You might talk me out of my decision to buy one!!!!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No John!! The C-25 is certainly one of the best values in a coastal/lake cruiser on the market! I hope you realize I'm talking about sailing where (1) the conditions can become beyond the comprehension of most of us (10' wind waves breaking on top of 50' swells with sheets of salty spray blinding you), and (2) there is no help to be had--the Coast Guard is not much help when you're in big trouble 1000 miles from anywhere, and at 100 miles per day, it could take you a while to find a place to hide. Unlikely--maybe... Unheard of--not on your life. Lake Erie is big and can get churned up--I know all about the Great Lakes--but it's a puddle compared to the Pacific or even Atlantic Ocean. Step aboard an Island Packet 44 and you'll get an idea of what a blue-water boat is about.

So, unless you had visions of sailing to Europe, I'd say this has nothing to do with your choice. Then again, if you really want an adventure....

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/01/2006 21:14:03

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 21:59:34

Hi John, I think you will be extremly happy with the C25. For the size of boat you get a lot for the money. Here is a link to a great deal. It might look like the high end of what you could get one for, but it is VERY well set up and you wouldn't have to do anything to it. Cheers and welcome to the group.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14146

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 22:04:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by djn
 Hi John... Here is a link to a great deal...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dennis: John has already been aboard Duane's boat (on the hard). The wheels are turning...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 22:11:34

The recently listed 89 fin for $8,200.00 might be worth looking at also.

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 22:23:30

I know a guy that sailed a Catalin 25 from Chesapeak to Bermuda, but I do believe as mentioned above, that key to whole thing is weather...good weather, and would be a trip to remember, bad wheater gale after gale, and you might not want to do. I want to try it myself, but I am think of something more in the 36 ft range or better, thats the retirement boat.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2006 : 22:32:05

Why do you ask?

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 06:16:20

It's been done even in a Capri 25 in the Transpac of 1986, so yes it can be done.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5896 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 08:28:15

There are adventurers who are so confident in their own abilities to cope with whatever happens to them that they will sail virtually any kind of boat across an ocean. Webb Chiles sailed an 18' open yawl (no cabin to provide shelter from the sun and rain and cold) about halfway around the world. Robert Manry sailed a 13' wooden boat, designed to daysail on small, placid inland lakes, across the Atlantic. These adventurers don't expect the boat to preserve them. They set out with the idea that they will, through their own skill and ingenuity and will to survive, keep the boat intact and afloat somehow, and that they will survive as a consequence. The rest of us prefer to go to sea in a boat that is expressly designed to cross an ocean, and that is strong enough so that it can survive a violent storm all by itself, even if we are disabled, and unable to tend to the boat.

A Catalina 25 is designed to sail inland lakes and cruise coastal waters. It's designed to provide accomodations for people who spend a weekend on the boat, but who have to go to work on Monday. There are boats of similar size that are designed to cross oceans, and they might look much like a C25, but the difference is in the structure. They're built to withstand the stress of breaking waves, so that the windows aren't stoved in and the cockpit isn't swamped and filled with water, and so that they can withstand a complete rollover. They can carry enough food and water to cross an ocean. Boat designers have adopted minimum standards for the construction of offshore boats. Those standards offer some degree of assurance that the boat will be up to the task. Catalina 25s are not built to those standards for an offshore boat. They're built to the standards for a coastal cruiser. While they can take a considerable beating, they can't withstand it as long as other boats. They might survive a crossing, but then again, they might not. They're not designed to carry stores sufficient for long periods at sea.

You might ask, why don't people just buy boats that can do whatever you want them to do? The answer is that bluewater boats are much heavier than coastal cruisers, and they don't provide the quick, lively performance that sailors enjoy. If you don't intend to cross an ocean, a coastal cruiser is a much better performer overall than a bluewater cruiser. Also, bluewater boats are much more expensive than coastal cruisers, and it makes no economic sense to pay more for a boat that is overbuilt for your intended use, and that won't perform as well as a boat that is expressly designed for your intended use. If you intend to cross an ocean, it should be in a boat designed for blue water. If you intend to sail lakes and bays and the coast, you'll be much happier doing it on a coastal cruiser designed for that purpose.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 08:59:18

For an example of a 20-footer (plus bowsprit) built for blue water (and overbuilt for everything else), see:
http://www.smallcraftadvisor.com/flicka.html

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:01:35

Steve, Manry was diagnosed with terminal cancer before he rebuilt Tinkerbell and set off for Europe...didn't have much to loose...besides he understood what he had to look forward to and decided it would be better to die doing what he loved doing rather than hooked up to tubes waiting to die in a hospital.

I wish I had that kind of STUFF if I was faced with the same prognosis.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:23:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 It's been done even in a Capri 25 in the Transpac of 1986, so yes it can be done.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not any more. The Transpac won't take a 25-footer.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5896 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:33:29

Val, I didn't know that about Manry, but it also explains Francis Chichester's fearlessness. In about 1968, in his seventies, he sailed a new, untested 57' boat to Australia, intending to circumnavigate solo and singlehanded. On the way there, it rolled over on two separate occasions, due to a poorly designed keel. He put over in Australia for two weeks, and had the keel removed and a new keel installed. Australians were trying to talk him out of the next leg, rounding Cape Horn, because, at that time, more singlehanders had died trying than had succeeded, but he insisted. He had previously lost a lung to cancer, and, although the surgery eliminated his cancer, he was well aware that his remaining lifespan was limited. Although he had a distinguished military career, and was an accomplished early airplane pilot, it was his sailing exploits in his later years that resulted in his being knighted by Queen Elizabeth.

I'm still trying to figure out whatever possessed Webb Chiles to try to sail that little open boat around the world??? He was young and apparently healthy. Just plain nuts, I guess.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 15:10:34

IMHO: Don't take a C25 further from shelter than the interval offered by a 'trusted weather forecast'.

They will indefinetly take abuse, but they won't take abuse indefinetly.

(adapted from a Volkswagen commercial of 40-odd years go)

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 15:53:08

Dave, Dennis,

My comment was tongue in cheek. Crossing the big ponds of the world is what God gave us airplanes for. Lake Erie is big enough for me. Yes, I've been on Duane's boat and think it's terrific. The wheels are indeed turning. I've corresponded with Eric in Chicago regarding the '89. The shipping costs will probably make that untenable. I was on an '83 today. Going to look at an '80 next week. That leads to another thread that I'll start.

Edited by - on

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2006 : 19:25:47

$100000.- for a 20 footer in 1998. Does it go for $ 150000.- today? Guess all of us Catalina owners are just spendthrifts or rational. Where do you stow the gear needed to cross an ocean in a 20 footer?

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2006 : 09:10:39

Steve,
Sir Francis was the legend of the sixties and one of my favorite passagemakers. How he managed GYPSY Moth is remarkable and he, like many sailors, must have been a "LITTLE TETCHED" to round the Horn solo aboard such a boat. Webb Chiles was unknown to me til you mentioned him and so I took a moment to check him out...sheesch married six times...now there's pluck for you. There was, to my mind, the most confounding westerly passage across the Atlantic by a six foot Danish navigator sailing a six foot eleven inch open boat. Forgot his name however. Sorry. He was followed soon after by a fellow who successfully sailed/paddled a fold boat across the pond, wakeing up on several occasions turtled.

And here I sit writing this with a perfectly good boat...Val on the hard, DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2006 : 21:17:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a 81 swing keel tiller std rig and want to know if anyone has sailed one of these to Hawaii from the west coast ?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No.

One of my favorite quotes on small boats and weather is from Ernest Hemmingway who said of the little straight of water between the Florida Keys and Cuba. 'Its only 90 miles but there's a hell of a lot of water in those 90 miles'
I'm not sure what Hemmingway would have said about sailing a 25 foot anything from the west coast to Hawaii...so I can only imagine he'd smile, pour another drink and ask if the bell tolls for thee.

I absolutely love the idea of sailing adventures on my '81 Swinger. A boy has to dream doesn't he? My dream is to fly to Hawaii and rent a boat there. So, does anyone know someone on Maui that has a small sailboat that they'd be willing to rent? I'll be there Jan 1/07.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2006 : 08:22:26

Then there's Hugo Vihlen, who crossed in first a 5'11' boat, then a 5'4" boat. I met Hugo when I was living with his sister's family the summer of 1973. Here's a link: http://www.community-newspapers.com/archives/sunnyvalesun/20041027/sv-cover.shtml

Brooke

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2006 : 08:54:06

Want some nice reading along the lines of a small boat big ocean?

Check out the log of the Berrimilla. Two older blokes do the Sydney-Hobart (Tasmania) race, continue on halfway around the world to do the Fastnet in England, then come back around via the great capes to do the next Sydney-Hobart.

http://www.berrimilla.com/

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DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2006 : 09:09:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dblitz
 $100000.- for a 20 footer in 1998. Does it go for $ 150000.- today? Guess all of us Catalina owners are just spendthrifts or rational. Where do you stow the gear needed to cross an ocean in a 20 footer?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I had the opportunity to learn to sail on a Flicka back in the early eighties. It's an incredibly stout little boat, with the chainplates bolted to the hull, and even two backstays. Also, it has a true 6' headroom in the cabin, plenty of storage, and an inboard diesel. It also has a full length keel, which is why it has good directional stability, especially when being smacked on the nose or the stern by a sea, or managing it's own steerage when the sails are set properly as opposed to a fin keel which will pivot around like a top. It also has a snub nose to help it avoid burying it's nose into swells when surfing while running with a storm. Everything like the rudder, rigging, mast, windows, is heavier..alot heavier..than a Cat-25.

But alas, you won't win a race with one because she is a fat little thing, unless you're race involves surviving a storm in mid-ocean. :)

-DaveC25

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