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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/19/2006 : 09:20:46

As with everyone, this is the time of year that we put together our wish lists. One of the items on it is new PFD's. We already have vests, but are wanting to move over to the inflatables for comfort reasons. (Those foam vests are quite warm...no HOT in the summer months.

)

My question is this...what color (yes I know orange is great) is the best for visibility. Or more to the point: Why do so many of the vests come in Blue or Gray colors? I would think that these are the most likely to be hard to see if someone goes overboard. I guess I could make it a rule that no one falls overboard, but you know that rules are just made to be broken

Mike
Grand Lake, OK
N.O. Catalina 25 #4849
In my opinion 75% of the earth is water for a reason. That's why I sail.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1769 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 10:25:34

My question is this...what color (yes I know orange is great) is the best for visibility. Or more to the point: Why do so many of the vests come in Blue or Gray colors? 

Hi Mike,

It sounds like you might be referring to PFD's like "Sospenders" ... is that right? If so, they are only blue when they are not deployed. After the air bladders are full, they are bright yellow (at least mine are ... I just checked).

Hope that helps ... Merry Christmas!

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 10:58:15

Buzz, yes that helps a lot. There a lot of them out there and we are considering many different brands. If they have the yellow bladder, then my fears are reduced quite a bit. That means the Admiral can be fashion conscious and at the same time be safe.

Thanks

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 11:24:22

IMHO stuff follows:

Check out the 'Stormy Seas' products. Most comfortable PFD
that I've found so far. You'll forget you are wearing a flotation device.

http://www.stormyseas.com/home.html

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 12:48:46

I looked at the stormy seas website, but the smallest item they have appears to be a vest like jacket. With us sailing on an inland lake the inflatables that are two strips are more likely what we are looking for. When it is 95-100 on the lake, any vest that covers most of your upper torso would be hot and uncomfortable. Otherwise, the stormy seas jackets and vests would be perfect in lower temps.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 13:06:20

The WM auto inflate at $99 (with occasional discounts) seem a good deal, we bought two (added advantage of having to only carry one type of service kit.)

Very Very Very comfortable! Forgot I was wearing mine.

Paul.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 13:25:00

I've used self inflating PFD's for about 10 years....
I do not rcommend any one brand over another but things to consider
are COMFORT,COMFORT and Comfort.
I would go to boat shows and try on a lot of different vests and the one that fits and was the most comfortable was the winner. Usually they woud give you a boat show disscount.
This year I'm due for a new one and will select one with a harness because it is getting to harder to get back on board or the dock which usually do not have ladders, when you are all wet and I mean TIRED.
I have participated in quite a few rescues over the years and it takes more than one person to pull somebody back on board or the dock.
You need all the hand holds you can get on the person you are trying to rescue usually takes three or five people.
Some times if they have suntan lotion on you have to get a rope and bind there legs and torso......well enough of that.
You do have to change the powder pill on a reguler basis.
Well that's enough food for thought...or maybe it's time to eat...

paulj C250 WK #719

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:29:18

I recently complained to the manager at a West Marine store that their on-sale non-inflatable PFDs and throwable cushions were all BLUE. Somebody needs to replace the 15 watt bulbs at West headquarters with something a little brighter.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:42:57

Paul, we have looked at the WM inflatable's and they are on sale. As luck would have it, the Admiral wants the Yellow/Gray combination and all that is available is the Red/Gray combo. Go figure. I guess she wants to look good as she is being hoisted aboard.

Edited by - cat1951 on 12/19/2006 14:43:54

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:59:12

Get an auto-inflatable with an integral harness. That way if you ever need a harness you already have it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2006 : 17:59:05

I'm a fan of the belt pack type inflatable pfd. With the uniform of the day being swim trunks and bikinis, especially on hot, steamy days, I've found the belt pack (for me) to be the most comfortable and least obtrusive pfd.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3472 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 05:23:19

I recently bought the WM 4000 Model Auto-Inflatable w/harness. I was waiting for a sale. I received a 20% off coupon via EMail and so bought the PFD with that. You guys influenced me with getting the harness model...thanks a lot...that cost an addl $20. I believe the WM4000 is made by Stearns.

One thing to consider is the cost of the rearming of these PFDs. I forget the brand but when of the competitors at the high end (equal to the WM 4000 - has a window to indicate if it is fully charged) has a 5 year periodicity recommended for rearming. But the rearming is a whopping $65. The West marine 4000 recommended periodicity for rearming is 2 years and the rearming is about $25-$30. As it turns out, there is no requirement to rearm, it is just a suggested periodicity. However, only the high end inflatables have an indicator if it is fully charged. So..my thought is that without knowing if it is fully charged on the lower priced models, one may wind up rearming it frequently as some may recommend it as often as annually. So...this is also something to consider. As it is , many come with an extra rearming cylinder in with the PFD and I believe that is because it is recommended to test the unit out with the first one. Though...I doubt many actually do that and save the rearming cylinder for the peridic replacement.

As far as comfort, some of these inflatables are a bit stiff when first wearing it but my experience has been it loosens up. I will say this...in all the years that I have sailed, I rarely if ever wore an PFD. I always had one nearby but never wore it. Since buying the inflatable, I still keep a regular PFD in the cockpit but I wear the inflatable all the time...well actually 100% when single handed sailing and often when others are present as well. So....that seems to me the real value of the inflatables. The compact nature of them is enough to swing those that do not wear a PFD into regular wearers of one.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 07:39:59

Larry, thanks for the comments. I will take the rearming and indicators into consideration. As far as wearing one, while in the cockpit, I sit on mine for comfort. However, if I ever leave the cockpit, it goes on. The Admiral does not swim, so she wears on all the time. In the heat of the summer, the foam vests become very uncomfortable and an inflatable is what we need.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3472 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 08:16:01

One more comment:

Rules regarding US Coast Guard requirements and wearing of PFDs. The PFDs that we all have that have the foam flotation, those I believe can just be left in the cockpit and not worn. maybe there is a requirement for kids to wear them and plus a good idea besides but for adults, it is recommended to wear but not required as long as nearby for ready access.

In regards to infatable PFDs, many are reqd to be worn by the US Coast Guard or else you are in violation. It depends on the inflatable PFD and whether indicated as a Type ii or Type V or combo Type II/V. I believe if it is a type V which the less expensive ones are labelled, then it must be worn. In my area, the waters are teaming with DC harbor Police patrol boats and US Coast Guard boats (also helicoptors). I was stopped last Spring and checked out, so...it is a concern besides safety reasons.

As a habit, I always have my foam PFD in the cockpit but if i have my inflatable, I wear it.

So...another thing to check is the rules regarding Type V and Type II and what the inflatable is labelled as will determine if you can "by the rules" keep it on the cockpit seat and be in compliance.

Thought this was going to be easy..Huh ?

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:04:09

Larry, thanks again, but I already knew that you must be wearing the inflatable to be counted. And as far as sitting on the foam vests, I am going to have some cockpit cushions made. I want to have 4 that fit the size of the lockers so that when opening them I am not raising the entire cushion. Then I can leave the foam vests for guests that need them.

As far as easy goes, you are right, you can get into analysis paralysis when looking into things like this, but this site sure helps make it easier.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:49:59

When Mustang invented the hydrostatic pressure actuator it made all others obsolete and made the decision process much easier.
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=507&mc=11

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 10:23:44

I looked at the Mustangs and you are right, they have what I really need. There are two Models 3081 & 3084 that would fit the bill. The prices (on Defender's) website are not outrageous either.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 10:26:07

My racing pfd is yellow

I wear that style because it allows me free arm mobility and has pockets that I find functional if I am calling tactics and performing other activities such as trimming sails or working the pit. If I were strictly pleasure cruising during the day and the weather warranted a PFD I’d go with one of my SOSpenders inflatables which have deployed colors of yellow or orange depending. The new mustang units are intriguing and I am looking into them. It would sure help with the accidental deployments from really bad rainstorms. (that will definitely make you jump)

All of my guest lifejackets are red or yellow

I think the reason there are so many other colors has to do with the wide variety of purposes. Not everyone is on the ocean, not everyone is on a large lake. Fred the Duck Hunter needs his “camo” for duck hunting. Bob just kayaks and likes the color blue. It doesn’t matter because the river is white or brown and only 20 feet wide. West Marine caters to all these individuals in some form… It’s fairly obvious though, that for sailors on most of our bodies of water, Red, Yellow, chartreuse or Orange are the main colors we should be wearing.

I also second the opinion above about comfort. Even some of the SoSpenders brands are annoying and uncomfortable (specifically the ones that are squared around the kneck.) Try them on first Factor in job function on the boat when selecting your jacket.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 19:21:44

There is absolutely no point in having a PFD if it is not on you. When you need it you will probably not get advanced notice. The boom will whack you in the head and toss you over. If the PFD is on the cockpit seat you are done, literally. That is why a manual inflating PFD is no good in my view, you have to be conscious to trigger it. This is one piece of equipment not to go cheap on. IMHO.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 19:58:20

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 21:04:30

OK, when you are below decks on a Navy ship an auto-inflatable is not best. But on a 25' sailboat it is.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 12/20/2006 21:04:57

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2006 : 21:57:18

Auto inflate is exactly what I am looking at. I am like Randy, I do not want to be sinking if I am knocked out for some reason and unable to pull the cord.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 01:16:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 OK, when you are below decks on a Navy ship an auto-inflatable is not best. But on a 25' sailboat it is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not necessarily.

It really depends on the user. Inflatables are not recommended for nonswimmers or small children in case they fail to automatically inflate, which is why these pfd's have two manual back-up inflation systems. My wife falls into the nonswimmer category, actually the panic attack swimmer category, and there is absolutlely no way she would be able to remain calm enough to manually inflate the pfd in the event of failure. This is why she wears an inherently bouyant lifejacket.

When I was researching inflatables before I bought mine, I carefully considered how I would use it. I'll admit, I didn't use a pfd much, only when the conditions were questionable, and since most of my sailing was on nice sunny days, well, my pfd didn't get used. The boat store allowed me to try on the harness pfd, and although it was more comfortable and less restrictive than a standard lifevest, I wasn't confident that I would wear it that much more than my old lifevest. I also asked myself if I would wear an inflatable harness type pfd while going shirtless and the answer was probably not. Would I wear a belt type inflatable without a shirt, probably yes. So after careful consideration, I determined the belt type pfd would be the one I would use more often so that is what I got.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying auto-inflate harness pfd's aren't the greatest, I'm just saying there are other perfectly acceptable options out there.

(Oh, if you are worried about getting knocked out by the boom, a helmet would probably offer better protection than a pfd.)

Edited by - dlucier on 12/21/2006 01:18:39

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 07:16:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Would I wear a belt type inflatable without a shirt<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Here in sunny SOFLA, that is rarely an option. Going shirtless is asking for some major sunburn. It is a potential even in winter. So you'll see me wearing longsleeved T's most of the time. I think local yocals might laugh at us as we done our jackets as we'er leaving the slip. But then, what does the peanut gallery know?

Oh, and as far as color is concerned... doesn't matter what color it is if it's in the cabin! It's the color when inflated that is important.

Paul.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 09:55:34

I am a "burn and peel" type.. The best thing ever invented for those like me is SPF stuff. I use a minimum of SPF 30 in bright sunlight and SPF 45 the closer I get to the equator. Going shirtless for me is not an option. When I snorkel, I wear a nylon shirt to keep the sun off of my back. My legs get multiple coats of sun block. A auto inflate PFD would work well for me since I could then have on something that doesn't make me sweat like a stuck pig.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2006 : 14:51:49

dlucier, I agree. The best PFD is the one that you will wear. Also, I appreciate your point about non-swimmers. Glad to hear your wife wears her PFD all the time. We do too. For me the concern about hitting my head on the boom or while going over is enough to have me wear the full auto-inflating PFD. When the Admiral is at the helm we can have some wicked jibes.

Edited by - on

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