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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

PVC Pipe

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/06/2007 : 13:09:33

A few years ago an article was posted for increasing forward ballast
with PVC pipe being filled with cement, lead shot etc. Any recollections out there??????

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 00:11:39

Yeah, it's been universally accepted that the bow needs up to 200 lbs of addditional weight stored underneath the V berth and forward of the water tank for optimal trim. With mine I used five 40 lbs bags of Mexican river pebbles (Home Depot)

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 11:34:26

I think you're right about the 200 (or so) pounds in the bow. BUT - if the weight is "permanent" (such as bags of stone) wouldn't that also add close to 200 pounds to the tongue weight if and when you trailer it. It's close to 600 pounds now with a wing keel and the extra 200 would put it over what many cars / trucks can handle. IF I do it, I'll probably lean towards a flexible water bag with an easy fill and drain setup - maybe tie it into the standard tank and drain both into the bilge and let the electric pump discard it. A cubic foot of water weighs something like 65 pounds so 3 cubic feet will do it.

Edited by - on

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 13:45:27

Think about batteries for added weight as well. I have put two series 27 batteries up front and with some extra gear or water up there...Walla!

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2007 : 18:49:16

And, to point out a VERY minority opinion, I'd like to point out that the need for additional weight is not universally accepted, just accepted by the majority of folks writing about this subject on this site.

On my stock, 2006 250WK, I do not find myself with any sort of handling problems causing me to want to weight the bow. I raced weekly in 15 to 20 without additional weight, and without a tendency to round up. I kept the angle of heel to 20 to 25 degrees usually, with some excursions to 30 or 35 for a few seconds when overpowered. I believe one the experienced folks (which is not me) is also not in the "weight the bow" camp, but I will leave his name out of it unless he wants to chime in.

If I did add batteries (which I plan to do), I would add them to the bow, as I would not want any additional weight in the stern.

My own 300lb butt is enough weight in the stern... :-)

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 07:17:21

I have not weighted the bow down either, but more and more I am taking friends out for rides and find the stern lowering as pax are added. I had read somewhere about using PVC pipe filled with concrete and the ends capped. Since I still single-hand sail I was thinking about using nothing permanent and the weight added being variable. I did take in consideration added bow weight on the trailer hitch. Since I do have a fish/depth finder down under the "V"
berth whatever I added was going to be lashed down up forward on the "V" berth. Just trying the KISS principal.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2007 : 14:11:52

In October we hauled our 250WK 2,000 miles from Iowa to Oregon. We WANTED and NEEDED more hitch weight to get the trailer to not sway. This is with anti-sway hitch. We moved the spare tire and a 60 pound bag of sand to the trailer front. In retrospect I think that removing the outboard and moving it to the trailer front would be a good idea. Plus, put the rudder in the V-berth.

I have to tell you I am not wild about the idea of putting weight into the boat the provides no function other than to weigh down the bow. If I need to do this I would prefer to add a water tank or move the battery and then add a second battery. But that then makes the wiring run from the outboard to the battery very long. Is that an issue for charging and electric starts??

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/08/2007 14:15:26

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 18:27:55

Randy & Pat,
I moved my battery to the v-berth and added a second. I ran #8 marine-grade wire and the electric starter on the outboard works fine. I don't know if it has had any measurable effect on charging from the outboard since I only run it for short periods of time. I rely on a dual-bank battery charger and shore power to keep juice in the batteries. [url="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/frayed-knot/projects/electrical.htm"]Click here [/url]to see some notes on my set-up.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2007 : 19:36:40

D & D, thanks for the post. I got that same charger for Christmas. Is there a support under the battery shelf in the bow or is it enough to glass it to the sides of the hull interior? Is the material plywood?

I am also thinking of doing a project like you did except leave a small (golf cart?) battery in the aft area for the outboard. It would be used to start the OB and for the OB to charge it. I wonder if it net out charged OK.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/09/2007 19:37:18

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 08:41:58

AS of now, I feel that the bow just looks too high in the water, but, as Kevin pointed out above, it does not seem to hurt performance. I've never had more than one other person on board so I have no idea what will happen with more weight back in the cockpit.

It would probably be better to move weight, not add more. Maybe adding a 2nd battery and moving both forward. Or a 3 cubic foot water bag in the bow which could be used to adjust trim when necessary.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 15:55:40

When I first read Bear's post, I immediately thought this was just a WB issue. Is this also an issue for Wing Keel versions? I'm looking at a wing on Monday.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/10/2007 16:57:06

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 20:05:08

Randy,
I couldn't get my hands on a piece of marine plywood, so I painted a piece of regular plywood with epoxy. I first made a cardboard template, experimenting with size and fit. I beveled the sides of the shelf to rest flat against the hull. I roughed up the inside of the hull with sand paper and then used epoxy and some strips of fiberglass mat. It ain't pretty but nothing's budged in two years. You might also want to see what Arlyn did for his boat [url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/batterybox.html"](click here)[/url]. His shelf is not attached but apparently stays put.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 20:13:20

John,
Mine is a wing and it seems to handle better with some weight in the bow. Not everybody thinks extra weight is needed, but it's easily remedied. Don't let this issue scare you away from a 250.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2007 : 22:57:07

Bubba, looking at your photos it looks like a heck of a lot of wires running from under the cooler area up to the 12V breaker panel. Are all of those 12V wires or are some the 110 circuits? I had figured that moving the batteries to the Vberth would mean just two wires from the batteries to the panel and two more to the Outboard. Well, and I guess two more to the Xantrex charger. Right?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2007 : 08:03:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CaptRon400
 ...I'll probably lean towards a flexible water bag with an easy fill and drain setup...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Out of curiosity, I just looked at this thread, and I'd recommend against the flexible bag. It will probably act a little like a partially-filled ballast tank--shifting the weight to leeward under heel, which destabilizes rather than stabilizing the boat. Whatever ballast you add inside a hull, make sure either it stays put or some cool method (like the pumps in some big boats) is used to move it to the windward side.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2007 : 18:19:31

Randy,
Yes, there are some 110 v cables in the pictured conduits as well.
There are three 12 v wires because of the battery switch mounted by the main panel (a positive lead from each batt. and a common negative).

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