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Fin Keel Repairs

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fredhillmann
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/15/2007 : 09:41:27

All:

I'm starting what for me will be a major project on my 1982 Catalina 25. Specifically, the fin keel is badly pitted, and there appears to be some delamination going on.

The first question is: are these keels external or internal to the hull? I haven't gotten through all the layers of bottom paint as yest, but it would be nice to know what I will see when I do so.

Also, it would be a big help to hear any contributions, comments, warnings, etc. that this group maight have. I'd appreciate any inputs.

Fred Hillmann

Hull #3885, "Whim"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2007 : 10:41:37

Don't do more than you need to do. You have a fiberglass encased keel, it is "external" and is bolted to a fiberglass stub. I would get the bottom paint off, making sure you do not knock any fiberglass off while you do it and re-evaluate the situation. Delamination is a real possibility, the question is; what does it hurt. Faring the keel with an epoxy putty like Marine Tex is easy and very productive, knocking a large piece of fiberglass encasement off the keel and repairing it is a bit more daunting. You might be able to fill a void with something like Git-Rot.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2007 : 11:54:59

Fred;

I did the same thing three years ago on my wing keel. My wing (converted from a fin in 1989) is a lead casting. It had been bolted to the bottom of the boat and the joint between the two had been 'faired' with and epoxy putty to smooth the joint. The rest of the lead keel had just been painted with some sort of epoxy paint. When we got the boat, most of the paint was gone and there was some corrosion (white, salty looking stuff) pushing up through what paint was left. In addition, some of the fairing material was broken off or loose, with some corrosion under that also. We sanded off the keel, down to bare metal, and 'chased' all the loose fairing putty until we got down to solid material. We then re-filled and smoothed all the fairing area with a thickened epoxy resin (and fiberglass cloth in the thick areas). Then we coated the entire keel with two layers of a lightweight fiberglass cloth. The whole keel was then faired with body putty and sanded smooth. We then applied two coats of a two-part epoxy marine paint from West Marine to seal everything. Then the entire boat was sanded and a new coat of bottom paint was added. It has been two sailing seasons in the Great Salt Lake (VERY salty) with no sign of pitting or corrosion on the keel. Although we put some dings in our work from running it up on the rocks in the mouth of our marina (Duh!), the bottom and keel still look great (we pull it out of the water in the winter).

Good luck with your project!

Paul

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2007 : 13:36:16

Paul, are you certain it was a fin to wing conversion and not a swing to wing conversion? In either case your keel will not be the same as Fred's. It sure sounds like you did a great job on your wing.

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farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2007 : 17:18:28

Frank;

No, it was a fin (no keel pocket, winch mount or cable holes, and standard salon, not a dinette). My boat was built late in 1981 and sold in California. At some point, the owner down there converted it to a wing. It was obvious that in the bilge, there were signs of old keel bolt holes, with slightly different spacing than the current bolts. In addition, there are two sets of through holes in the hull for the speed and depth transducers. This was done because the original fin locations would have sent the depth signal down on top of the new wing. Finally, I suspected this, and wrote Catalina with my hull number and my suspicions. They wrote back and confirmed that the boat had been converted at the factory in 1989.

Fred, I forgot to mention that there is a good article in the Tech Tips about someone that converted a swinger to a wing. Although this is much more extensive than your project, It has pictures that explain the fairing and painting of the new keel which will apply to what you have to do.

Paul

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2007 : 23:16:04

I have an 83 fin keel and have similar problems. See below. I am going to have the bottome taken down to the glass then repair the bad places..basicly seal them up so they wont alow water in...then going to have the whole bottom done with a two part epoxy barrier coat, then have bottom painted with a good bottome paint. I am having a yard do the work because I want the bottom of the keel done and I dont have a way to get her off the trailer...6000lbs is a lot to be messing with...However after that I will paint bottom myself every year or two. thats my plan at least.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2007 : 10:03:01

Hi Fred... Now, I keep getting this wrong, but I've been led to believe that it was in 1983 that Catalina switched from the essentially bare cast iron fin to the glass-encased lead fin (that I had on my 1985). If that's correct, then your 1982's "pitting" and "delamination" is just rust in the cast iron. If so, you should see rust weeping out from various places in the bottom paint. There's nothing to actually "delaminate" on the keel itself. The simplest indicator is probably the keel bolts in the bilge--if they look rusty, you have a cast iron keel--if they look like stainless steel, you have glass-encased lead. I suspect the former.

One way to fix pitting problem on the cast iron keel is to grind away the worst of the rust, apply a "rust reformer" to remaining rusty and bare metal, optionally fair the keel with something like Marine Tex (if you're not racing, you could skip that part), apply an epoxy barrier coat, and then paint. Whatever approach you take, it's likely that you'll see more rust appearing as time marches on (especially in salt water)... but there's plenty of iron in there to keep you upright for more years than you'll be around.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/20/2007 10:04:09

fredhillmann
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2007 : 09:48:18

All:

After reading all of your welcome and informative contributions to this topic, it appears that I'll just have to get that bottom paint off and see what lies beneath. It's been a bit chilly of late, but a little wire brushing should keep me warm.

After your initial posts, went down to "Whim" armed with a putty knife and a small wire brush. What I found was: some signs of pitting and rust, AND some (conflicting?) evidence of delamination. Specifically, the latter comprised pieces of what looked like gelcoat that broke off with only a little help from my knife.

Next step: a more determined wire brushing to see what's there.

Thanks for your contributions. I'll keep you posted.

Fred

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2007 : 10:31:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fredhillmann
 ...went down to "Whim" armed with a putty knife and a small wire brush. What I found was: some signs of pitting and rust, AND some (conflicting?) evidence of delamination. Specifically, the latter comprised pieces of what looked like gelcoat that broke off with only a little help from my knife.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I wouldn't categorize that as "delamination"--it's just ordinary peeling that occurs when rust builds under any surface you put on iron. Delamination is much more serious--that's when the "laminates" (layers of fiberglass roving) start to separate, thereby weakening the structure. Nothing you've described is anything close to that. You just have some rust under the layers of whatever is on the cast iron--a standard feature of the pre-83 fin keel as well as all of the C-25 swing keels (but not C-250 centerboards). A few people have defeated it (at least temporarily) with a lot of work... Most have accepted that when the boat is out of the water, there will be some pitting and stains, and when she's in the water, she'll sail just fine.

PS: Remember that the dust from that wire brush is toxic. Chemical strippers tend to be safer and possibly easier, but they work best in warm weather (and almost not at all in cold).

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/21/2007 10:36:11

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