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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Cleveland Boat Show

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Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/17/2007 : 09:08:14

Went out to the boat show this week. Pretty disapppointing to see some of the tings they are changing in the new boats. The biggest one I saw on the Hunter and some others is a vinyl head liner. Talk about a disaster looking for a place to happen. I guess I look at my interior and I like to loook of the bolts for the chain plates and various other hardware. It just makes sense from a maintenance perspective to be able to see them and inspect. I guess I am really feeling goood about how much I spent on my C25 compared to these new boats that are running in the 80K plus.

Chris Z.
Water Warrior
1982 Force 5

Former Owner Blown Away - C25

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mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 09:39:37

What boats were on display that were in the $80k plus range?

The Catalina 250's (and dare I say the words "Hunter 25") run in the $45k range with most factory options. Not cheap by any strech of the imagination, but no worse than some of the luxury automobiles that people seem to drive like crazy people and still quite a bit cheaper than $80k

Mark

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 11:56:30

Freeman - Eckley had a number of the big Catalinas (big = greater than 30) and a larger beneteau or two. There were also some larger Dufours, Sabres and a Tartan.

In general, because of the local market, 95 percent of the over 600 boats were not wind propelled.

here are the links - Many of the mfgs are listed because a broker sells them new, there were probably less than 20 sailboats there ..

http://www.clevelandboatshow.com/midam-boats.shtml

http://www.lemta.com/cgi-bin/webdata/webdata_exhibitors.pl

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mhartong
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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 15:44:20

A retorical question. Why the insistance that one must have a BIG boat? I mean the entire idea is to have a boat with sufficent money and time left over to actually sail it!!!!!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 16:12:02

At my age it is a rig that is small enough for me to sheet in!

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djn
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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 16:25:59

A friend of mine has a C36 and it is a great boat and at times I think about upscaling, but there is a lack of connectedness with the bigger boats. Sailing the c25, for me, is much more energetic than the c36. Cheers.

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 16:54:24

I sat on the 309 that was there. Ya know, the $100,000 starter boat Cruising World described. I fantasized a while then went out and bought a previously enjoyed C250.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/17/2007 18:19:21

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 17:01:43

I have been lurking on the C36 website for a while. There are folks who single hand them. Sounds like way lots of fun to me. All you have to do is give up Starbucks for a few weeks and then you can afford one.

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Derek Crawford
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3324 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 17:31:41

If I bought anything over 35' it would need electric winches!! I've raced on a friend's Hunter 37.5 (forgive me, folks!) and couldn't crank in the genoa in 10knots...

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Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2007 : 20:59:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mhartong
 A retorical question. Why the insistance that one must have a BIG boat? I mean the entire idea is to have a boat with sufficent money and time left over to actually sail it!!!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My thoughts exactly!!

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Heartbeat
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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 12:37:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 If I bought anything over 35' it would need electric winches!! I've raced on a friend's Hunter 37.5 (forgive me, folks!) and couldn't crank in the genoa in 10knots...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That isn't a boat size problem, that is a winch size problem. I crew semi-regularly (when I am not racing my own) on a C&C 35, an NA-40, and a Marek 55. I can handle grinding on any of the winches. I am a small non-musclebound type. It just takes correctly sized winches - think 32-60 and 10" winch handles.

I am thinking about trading "up." Up for me would be something like an Express 27, a Melges 24 of maybe even a J/80 (huzzah!) Not this year, but maybe someday. Meanwhile, I'll keep dreaming.

Matt

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 13:18:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 In general, because of the local market, 95 percent of the over 600 boats were not wind propelled.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The last time I went to the Detroit Boat Show, about 8 or 9 years ago, they only had a few token sailboats amongst the 1,000 or so powerboats. At the time, I thought a better name for the event would be,...The Detroit Powerboat Show.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 14:22:32

In all I thought the show was a disappointment – though I expected it to be so, it was worse than I expected. The Cleveland IX center just leases out the space for that event to the some group of people that have been doing it for years. They changed the name this year, but really didn’t add much with the change other than a so called floating dock house minimum thing. For 160k the thing looks like a trailer park on the water.

IMHO the company putting on this show has not made any enhancements whatsoever to it over the years and are resting on their laurels and reaping the vendor fees and ticket prices. I fully comprehend the ratio of powerboats to sailboats; however they have done nothing to retain vendors over the past 10 years – on either side power or sail.

Noticeably missing: 4 or the 5 major sail lofts, 3 local brokerages (local within 200 miles), and a presence by J-boats other than local J fleets manning tables and bringing their own boats to the show (a 22 and a 105). The Cleveland area hosts numerous national, regional and international J events almost yearly. You could not find: Any cordage companies, any large scale motor companies for power or sail, coatings corporations, major marine electrical companies and on and on.

Even the remote control fleets were missing this year…..along with their fun pool and hands on demo.

Noticeably not missing: Twiggy the damn waterskiing squirrel and the marine flea market where the same guy sells the same junk every year. I actually marked two of the items and am waiting to see if they find their way back again next year.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 14:54:43

I agree Duane. I was equally disappointed the last time I went in January '99.

But, I did find an economical place to put my boat this summer -- Sandusky Harbor Marina. I was disappointed in the lack of (non-boat) vendors. I was looking to buy new lines for my Daysailer and new PFD's for the 250. Didn't find either.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/18/2007 14:57:01

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 19:38:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I agree Duane. I was equally disappointed the last time I went in January '99.

But, I did find an economical place to put my boat this summer -- Sandusky Harbor Marina. I was disappointed in the lack of (non-boat) vendors. I was looking to buy new lines for my Daysailer and new PFD's for the 250. Didn't find either.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll shoot you an email regarding lines- I have some contacts.

I probably wouldn't go if it weren't for the vendors that I do know that take care of me.

We were out in Sandusky for a number of years. If you go out there to work on the boat swing by Markley's diner downtown for some breakfast.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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1916 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 19:54:49

Well sorry for offending folks with my desire for a bigger boat someday. I won't sail my 25 off to the Carribbean. But I would in a 36 to 38 footer. If I was just going to stay on the lake, then the 25 is just fine. Maybe I'll have both.

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Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2007 : 20:07:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A retorical question. Why the insistance that one must have a BIG boat? I mean the entire idea is to have a boat with sufficent money and time left over to actually sail it!!!!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I must have missed something in the thread....I didn't see any insistance that someone should get a bigger boat. I would add most of us - except maybe hopper

are not the target audience for the Beneteau 42.

As for the general transgression of people buying a bigger boat - There are many who don't, and they've been in this association for a long time. Others like myself who is looking/selling has to do with family size. Others only bought this boat to learn on. For some its Nautical *** Envy...

It is all good!

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mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2007 : 08:42:55

Every boat size has its place

, however one must admit there is a signficant bias both in the "popular" sailing press as well as boat show organizers for boats over 30 feet while in terms of numbers there are far more boats 30 feet and under.

"Of the boats owned in the United States (about 1.4 million units), 8 percent are sailboats. This includes both nonpowered sailboats (1.3 million) and auxiliary-powered craft (70,000). Altogether, sailboats represent about 4 percent of boats manufactured. The vast majority of sailboats built were in the 12 to 19 foot range. From 1991 through 1993 sales of larger sailboats plummeted, largely attributable to the excise tax on luxury boats. In 1994, even after the repeal of the excise tax on luxury boats, large sailing craft's percentage of total sailboat production continued to be quite small. Of the 13,000 sailboats produced that year about two-thirds were in the 12 to 19 foot class. Another 20 percent were sailboats ranging from 20 feet to 29 feet in length. Sailboats of 41 feet or more in length accounted for a mere 2.9 percent of total production.
(Lynn Pearce (ed),"Encyclopedia of American Industries", 4th edition, Thomson Gale-Nov 2004 )"

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bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 00:34:20

Well guess I will throw my 2 cents into the pond. I bought my C25 because I had a Spindrift 22, nice little boat, but she was not as sturdy as my Catalina, and no support network, not like this. The money I spent to become a memeber of the association is the best I have spent, I have gotten so many good ideas and learned more about my Catalina than I ever learned about my little 22 in 5 years that I had her. I bought my Catalina because I like Catalinas rep, and it was right boat at right time..although she needs some TLC. She does look better than when I bought her. I also got this bigger boat as a stepping stone to bigger things. I have dream of sailing off shore, and as much as I am crazy I just dont think I would like to spend that much time on a 25 ft boat or challange a nice gale with her, comfort is a matter when it comes to long times aboard...and storage...heck as much as it will cost might just have to live aboard...they say thats good way to test your ability to take life on board. So I got my 25 to move up, take one more step towards larger boat...to have a great support network...which Catalinas have when compared to others...non compare, IMHO. I have also found inside the Catalina groups that this group and the 36 bunch are most organized and have best support...you see that in the main sheet...Well thanks for the support..Oh by the way my dream boat right now is a 36, well thats my 2 cents, cheers
Barry

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 06:42:52

With a buddy looking at him moving from a C25 to a C30, we thought of the consequence of the change.

We're located in south florida, you know, hurricane village, so being able to keep the boat on land well away from the water has an advantage there.

Our sailing area is basically the entire US Coast and inland waterways because our draft is under 2' with the keel up. We can get into practically any harbor.

To take the boat over to the west coast of Florida is a 4 hour journey, so we can spend a week sailing in the Gulf of Mexico and only take a day getting there. That's true of practically the entire florida coast, taking the boat to the Pan handle a little longer but very doable.

When we discussed this thread last night, we concluded that we had made the best choice for our situation. I suggested that with hindsight I might have purchased an older model rather than brand new which would have saved boookoo bucks, but the Admiral reminded me of the adage often mentinoed here... A $35,000 boat costs $35,000 no matter how much you pay for it!

Over the past year we have really enjoyed our introduction to 'big boat' sailing (still have the laser II in te back yard, about to give it away.) and it has gotten us away from the homestead for about 60+ days in the last 19 months. This year will be even better!

Trailer Sailers rule

Paul

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