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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outboard Engine --yet again

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1813 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/07/2007 : 08:30:55

I am the new owner of a 25 tall rig with fin keel. The engine that came with the boat is a Johnson Sailmaster 9.9 with 25 inch shaft which needs replacement. I have a new Honda 8 -- but it is a 20 inch shaft model. What do most think about 20 v 25 inch shafts on Catalina's? Does the 20 inch work or is it really a bad idea to go with a shorter shaft outboard? If sailing conditions matter, the boat is on Long Island Sound. Any and all comments are appreciated

Peter Bigelow
PO - C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 08:39:17

Many, many discussions on that here--try the Search. The short answer is "YES--you need 25" on L.I.S." The longer answer is "It depends..." ...on the positioning and vertical lift of the bracket. Your goal, IMHO, is to get the antiventilation plate (above the prop) at least 4" below the surface at rest. That'll take care of you in most conditions on L.I.S.

Deeper is better.

And welcome to the forum, Peter! BTW, I and my family sailed out of the Darien Boat Club for 25 years.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/07/2007 08:44:20

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 09:18:15

As Dave stated, longer is better, especially in waters that might kick up a bit of chop.

I'm not sure if it is possible with the Honda, but I believe the only difference between the long and short shaft versions of my old Johnson 9.9 was a 4" spacer bolted above the lower unit and a different size drive shaft.

Anyone know if Honda has a long shaft conversion kit?

Oh, and welcome to the forum, Peter!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 09:51:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Anyone know if Honda has a long shaft conversion kit?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When I had a long (20") shaft "classic" Honda 8 (compliments of my DPO), I asked a dealer about that. He said parts could be ordered, but the overall cost didn't make sense. (Anyway, I wanted electric start, too.) Among the conversion kits listed on their website is a tiller extension, but not a shaft extension. ...and as I recall, it involves more than just the casting and the shaft. (BTW, I sold that 5-year-old Honda for close to what the DPO bought it for new.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/07/2007 09:57:26

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 11:23:51

Couple of thoughts:

You want the 25". That Honda would be fine on a lake, but not the great lakes.

Does that Sailmaster need replacing or just a good rebuild. A rebuild will run you about half the cost of a new outboard.

If you are a member of the association, you can get a substantial discount from Online Outboards (make sure you use our link) which will more than pay back your annual dues and then some.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 11:37:06

I sailed my C25 Fin standard rig in the Pacific ocean for several years with a Honda 8 HP 20 inch. It will work fine in most conditions. When the waves get short and steep you'll find you have to sit in the far back and move weight astern to keep the motor in the water enough. Plus operate the motor on the lowest motor mount setting. Then you run the risk of ingesting some water which fouls the idle jet.

After 3 years and sailing in more and more agressive conditions, I bought the 25 inch Tohatsu 9.8 from Online Outboards. I'm very happy with it. It was only $1875 with my Members only discount, no shipping charge, and no sales tax.

I also sold my Honda 8 in about 5 minutes for $500. I'm not kidding, I posted an add on the local fishing board, clicked submit, and I got a call "Is it sold yet?" I met the guy at lunch time and he handed over 500 cash. Since my Honda needed a tune up and service (which cost $600) I avoided that charge which makes the new motor only about $700.

I love the new motor, its quiet and powerful and gets much better MPG. I think that is due to having the prop deeper and in better flow of water under the hull. Also the charging system works great at low RPM, love the electric start!

If you are planning to motor out of the marina and go day sailing the Honda will do fine. If you plan some longer cruises or major ocean races get the 25 incher.

Edited by - JimB517 on 02/07/2007 11:39:52

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1813 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 14:08:28

Thanks for the input -- it confirms what I had through -- go with a 25 inch shaft. I am checking to see if the old engine can be fixed for a season or so more. Our boat is a project -- mostly TLC, but needs enough where a new engine is not in this years budget. I will not use the Honda 8 I already have if the older Johnson can be fixed.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2007 : 20:16:41

The original owners manual says a 20 inch is good, but it also says a 15 inch will work in most situations. That is probably stretching it. Deeper is better in a number of things, but especially outboards. My only suggestion is since you have the 20 inch Honda, why not just try it.

The Sailmaster is a good engine - 2 strokes have their shortcomings, but they are simple and rock solid. Mine was running fine until the Dumb Current Owner drug it to Florida and didn't think about last summer's gas in the tank. It ran great for about 10 minutes and is now in for a carb scrub down. Most of my problems are my own doing.

Rebuilf engines give you an essentially new engine; it isn't a tide you over process. When my engine was stolen from my previous boat, I pushed it temporarily with my rebuilt classic 1951 Johnson. That engine is still going strong on an equally ancient wooden fishing boat.

Dave B

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 01:17:21

I made a SS plate for the mount to help deflect water in rough situations. Even with the 25 inches of the Chrysler Sailor 10hp water would surge up over the hood and cover the engine. Has anyone used something like this for pushing the outboard as deep as possible with a 20 inch lower unit? The stainless steel plate was about 12 to 16 guage and attached to the engine mount and cut so it wouldn't interfer with the lowering or raising. I am going to make one now for the Honda 25 inch before the next season and cruise.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2007 : 08:24:35

Interesting idea, Jim... I'll bet some folks here will want pictures. That's definitely another consideration for XL shafts--L makes it necessary to put the powerhead closer to the water, and probably to drag the mounting board, especially in chop. When the board drags, water will spray up on the powerhead.

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.