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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Where to start... ...experience needed.

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ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2007 : 21:57:30

I tried keeping this short, but it’s a bit involved. Those of you on a tight schedule feel free to skip to “**On to my question” below.

To begin with I need a lot of help as a complete beginner. I'm not a sailor, haven’t even been sailing for 15 years or so. But Dad is, and it is great for him to be out on the boat - great therapy. You see unfortunately he suffered a pretty darn big cardiac arrest (passed away for 13 minutes) a while back, which has slowed him down a bit. We are very lucky to have him with us at all, and count our blessings for this everyday.

After 6 months in hospital, and another year or so fighting hard everyday he has beaten the odds (we were told at one point a 2% chance of survival) and is now returning to a full life. Sailing is a big part of his therapy, at least in the summer months.

This event has changed Dad in many ways, and we are fine with that. But the first time I saw 'the old Dad' back again was when I got him out on his C25 (swing keel) last fall. It had sat at in its berth in Vancouver for those 18 months – we had other things to worry about - but was still sea worthy, and even though I hadn't ever sailed it myself I spent enough time on it as a kid, so we both went out. His balance is iffy and his memory was pretty foggy at first, and some of his instructions just didn't make sense - there was a lot of winging it, but we pulled it off. Once out with the sails up, he took over and it was amazing to see. Right away I knew I was getting back into boating, like it or not.

We limped through a few more outings with the boat the way it was, but I knew it would need some attention to keep it going for more years to come.

I have just booked a lift time for the end of this month to get it out and have a look at the bottom, paint it and do anything else that is absolutely necessary.

But frankly reading this site scares me about the amount of time this boat might demand of my already over filled life. Other family responsibilities (all mine now), and a job that has me traveling internationally half of the time I am looking to do my best and keep the boat ready enough for day trips with Dad and the occasional overnight (my way of getting to know more about the boat and to make it up to my girlfriend for all the hours spent with Dad and the family).

**On to my question(s), what do I need to know about repainting the underside of Dad’s boat? I’m guessing it’s going to be covered in a nursery worth of sea plants which will need to be removed – good old fashion scraping I’m guessing. Then I’m guessing the ‘sticky’ marine paint needs to come off – how is that best achieved? How ‘smooth’ do I need to get the results before applying the new marine paint – and what is the paint called that needs applied. Approximate cost?

I don’t want to give the impression that I have not read the related posts on these topics, but frankly I don’t know exactly what applies to my situation and what doesn’t, and making time sift through isn’t an option. That said thanks for your time even reading this far.

Lastly, what at a bare minimum should I be doing, looking for, fixing on the unders side to get us another year out on the water with this boat?

Any assistance is very much appreciated.

1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR
"Bungo III"

Edited by - ReluctantRookie on 04/10/2007 21:58:43

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 22:06:25

Do you know what is currently on there? maybe an old half of a can or a receipt? does your Dad know? Some paints will do well with a pressure wash, a rough up with a scotch brite pad and a new coat.

OThers might require a days worth of sanding prior to doing anything. STill others might just require only a paint job. What is currently on there will dictate much of your next steps, along with the appearance of what is currently on there.

Price on bottom paint can be as little as 23 bucks a gallon to well over 200 (I wouldn't expect someone in your situation to need more than the 40 dollar kind) I can usually squeeze two very very good coats of VC-17 bottom paint out of 3 (quantity three) quart cans.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 22:07:44

Paul, a very big welcome to the forum. Your verbose post was worth it, it helps us remember that sailing is a great therapy and we should all make time for our family.

I look forward to reading your future posts on the challanges and successes you experience with those close to you. You'll get plenty of boat info support here.

Again, welcome. Post often!

Paul

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 22:11:44

Hi RR, it is a good thing you are doing for your Dad. The first think I would do is powerwash the bottom the very minute it comes out of the water. That is when the growth will be easist to get off. Inspect the Keel pivot for looseness on the pin, replace the cable (might as well, it's cheap), sand down the bottom with an orbital sander and 160 grit paper, then apply two or three coats of VC17. A weekends work for you and a buddy. Have fun. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 22:32:23

If you previously had VC on the boat you don't need to sand. Wipe it down with mineral spirits and a sponge - liberally. Then paint over it.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 03:21:54

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your comments and kind words.

As Duane mentions finding out what is on there now seems to be a key to figuring out next steps. Dad's not sure, and no paint cans to be seen. Any other way to tell - consistency, how it reacts to other compounds? Etc?

I see Interlux makes a VC17 paint. Is it only the one manufacturer or is it a paint type, brand, class of some kind? Does a paint closer up to the $100 mark on the scale mean it would need to be redone less often?

I have read these keels can suffer pitting, and apparently Dad mentioned to a friend that is a problem with his. Can anyone direct me to a good step by step about how to fix that, what compound to use etc?

Again thanks for your input, every little bit helps.

Cheers, Paul.

Edited by - ReluctantRookie on 04/11/2007 03:34:14

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 08:03:09

Paul,

Welcome to the forum.

If your Dad's boat was in saltwater and he was not a racer, I would suspect he probably did not have a teflon bottom paint like VC17m. More than likely, the boat has either a hard or ablative paint on it. When you have the boat hauled, ask the marina workers about the bottom paint. They may be able to shed some light.

Good luck with the boat...I do hope all goes well for both you and your Dad.

Oh, again, welcome to the forum. Now that you're here, we'll expect regular updates.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 08:21:31

Paul, Your discription of your father's reaction to being back on the boat reinforces my belief that sailing is a spiritual activity. We can all only hope that there is someone like you around if we ever wind up in your farther's condition. I for one intend to put it in my will that if I am ever incapacated to where the doctors believe there is no hope that I should be put aboard my boat and set adrift. I'll bet that in a week they will see me sailing up to the dock with the tiller in one hand a beer in the other and a big grin on my face. I hope the same will be true for your dad.

Now on to answer your question. If I did't live 2,500 miles away from you I'd be happy to swing by and give you a hand.Maybe someone else in the forum, who lives closer, will see your posting and volunteer a couple of hours to get you started. If you have to go it alone and since you only need to get the boat in shape for day sailing at present and you don't have much time I would suggest that you ask one of the yard crew at one of the local marinas to take a look at the hull and give you some advice or maybe even a quote to do the work.(Even if you don't hire him you may get valuable free information just by talking to him) Remember all you need to do for the present is get the boat seaworthy for now. Sorry I can't help you out more than this and to wish you good luck. Keep us posted on your progress and your father's progres. I think it will be an inspiration to us all.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:04:48

Hi Paul,
Welcome. I take care of my 75 year old mother with rheumatoid arthritis and dementia and know where you're coming from. Also haven't dealt with bottom inspection, painting and the like. Next fall when I have to do this (in salt water generally once a year) I'll go to a local marina with a good name and have them do the work. I don't know that much about it and when you're 10 miles off shore in 100 feet of water it's called "Peace of Mind". In Florida I'm told I can have this done for $800 to $1,000.
And I totally agree with Renzo, I've found sailing to be a spiritual thing and totally renewing, I hope you do to. Good luck

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:49:22

Welcome Paul! I agree with Don Lucier (usually do) about the paint. Once the boat is out, it's not too hard to decide whether it's a "hard" or "ablative" paint. The ablative stuff is like a powder that rubs off on your hands, clothes, or anything else. Its advantage is that it gradually wears away instead of letting coats build up from year to year. Also, it can tolerate being out of the water for a while (like winter storage), where hard paints generally lose their antifouling properties in a few weeks in air.

Generally, ablatives do not work well applied over hard paint (they cause the underlying paint to peel off) and hard paints can't be applied over ablatives--they won't stick. So when you have a good clue as to which yours is, you can get a low-to-medium priced compatible paint--like Interlux Fiberglass Bottomcote (hard) or Fiberglass Bottomcote ACT (ablative)--around $100-150US/gal. One gallon should give you a two coats if you keep it thinned a little.

As for preparation, racers, cruisers, and casual daysailors tend to have different opinions on this. In your case, with a compatible paint, I'd say the main objective is to remove all growth and loose paint, primarily by scraping. Anything more than a little spot sanding requires a breathing aparatus and coverall clothing--THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL if you are machine sanding toxic bottom paint--your liver and kidneys will pay the price, and shorten your life. IMHO, you can powerwash, scrape, and paint. You might have some craters (if it's hard paint), but when she's in the water, they're out of sight, and contrary to racers' opinions, the boat will still move through the water.

Your last major issue is the keel cable. In salt water, it should be replaced every "few years"--opinions on that vary here, and I didn't have a swing keel. The replacement kit is available from Catalina Direct (a third party), and more advice on that is abundant on these forums.

Also, I will suggest that for future posts, you add a "signature" under your "profile" (link above) that identifies the type and hull number--such as 1972 SR/SK #1234 (for Standard Rig / Swing Keel). You'll see that on many posts here--it often helps us give you more precise answers.

Welcome to the association and the forum--your dad just might turn you into a sailor for good!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/11/2007 09:57:24

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 10:13:21

Amen to Don and Dave, as usual. Three years ago I switched from hard epoxy paint (Trinidad) to ablative by using ACT. That was the recommendation, and I can testify it works very well. Since you can't go from ablative to hard without removing all the paint, putting on something like ACT would be the easiest path. For the future, ACT only requires light sanding before the next coat.

I'd also suggest, given your experience and schedule, that you let a good boat yard to the work for you. Ask locally who does good and reliable work. It will obviously be more expensive than doing the work yourself, but time is money. I'm taking next week off to commission my boat for the summer, but usually I can't do that.

You might also think about looking for a sailing class -- a weekend or a week -- for yourself, so you'll be more comfortable taking Dad sailing.

As for sailing being a spiritual matter -- as a professional theologian, I couldn't agree more. Someday I hope to finish my book on that subject, but in the meantime you might want to read "First You have To Row a Little Boat" by Richard Bode. Alvah Simon's "North to the Night" is a deeply spiritual reflection on sailing as well. And, though I haven't read it, "My Old Man and the Sea" might speak to you and your Dad.

This is a great forum, and I would encourage you to check the archives for a pretty comprehensive list of subjects that have been covered well over the years.

Brooke

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 11:16:51

Paul -
Check out http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm for what ever parts you might need including the swing keel cable. Also search through the threads about regular maintenance details.
Best of luck w/ your dad.

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 14:51:16

Welcome to the forum Paul. A very nice thing you are doing for your Dad. . .and for yourself - sailing is a great activity!

So the short list:
Haul the boat
Pressure wash the bottom
Check/replace keel cable and pivot pin
Determine type and condition of bottom paint
Prep and repaint bottom, keel and rudder
Check rudder pintles and gudgeons
Check thru-hulls (to-hulls)
Relaunch
Enjoy sailing

Check your area for sailing clubs, people at the marina (assuming it's at a marina), with Catalinas that could be of help.

Good luck! If my schedule wasn't so busy right now, I'd come up and give you a hand. Maybe in a few weeks things will be settled down enough. If you need any help then, let me know. Could use a good excuse to visit your fair city.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 22:38:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ReluctantRookie
 ...But frankly reading this site scares me about the amount of time this boat might demand of my already over filled life...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Paul: Keep a couple of things in mind:

1. This site tends to focus on maintenance, particularly during the winter and spring, and especially as launch dates approach for those of us with winter seasons. So you see more talk about that now than about sailing...

2. People here are passionate about their boats--sometimes to a fault from the perspective of many sailors who just want something that gets them out on the water and moves along. Again, a forum like this attracts the more passionate owners.

Don't get me wrong--some maintenance is necessary for your safety. You don't want the mast coming down, or the keel free-falling and sinking the boat, or the rudder falling off. But those things don't happen much on C-25s, and are easy to prevent. A few hours and/or a few "boat-units" (those are $100 bills) each year will keep you safe. A lot of the other stuff we discuss here is cosmetic or performance-related, and therefore optional.

Don't be alarmed or overwhelmed--you have a "good old boat" there.

Edited by - on

ReluctantRookie
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 03:41:18

I'm headed off on a business trip for a while so won't have an update for a bit, but just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback. It is amazing to have such a resource of experience.

I still haven't completely decided on my plan yet, but have the lift dates booked and some good ideas and good questions to ask my local marine supplier and ship yard bystanders which is a great start.

Again thanks and I'll be back in a while (a month or less) with an update.

Cheers,
- Paul.

Edited by - on

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