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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

outboard vs. sail drive

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lawyer
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/08/2002 : 13:13:04

My wife and I are planning to purchase sometime near the Annapolis Boat Show in October. I haven't seen discussions as to outboard vs. the diesel option. I know the basic pros and cons, but after crewing on our friends Catalina 42 for long weekends my wife truly wants a "small ship" feel (wood, wheel, and no outboard hanging off the back). Why does nobody choose the diesel? Outside of cost, easier maintenance access, and no prop dragging while sailing, is there some C250 specific reason not to go all the way if the price isn't a factor? We won't be trailering, will day-sail with four, overnight with two and a large dog, and will be on the Chesapeake. Thanks in advance.
Chris

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2002 : 18:37:16

Hey Chris, a very good question. While you certainly hit the major points... there are at least a couple of others.

1. an inboard takes space...
2. inboards can be smelly and noisy
3. the c250 is light and has a lot of freeboard and gets blown around a lot... steering the outboard probably is a great help. However, I don't recall any post dealing with this issue on the forum... I'm thinking I only recall one owner who shared on the forum who had the inboard.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2002 : 19:04:23

Chris (alias "lawyer"),

To the negatives that you and Arlyn list, I would add that motoring with a fixed-prop inboard requires more skill than motoring with an outboard. Because you can't change the direction of the prop thrust, as you can with an outboard, you have to understand prop torque, and how to use prop walk. Also, sometimes you have to know how to use spring lines to get away from a dock with a fixed prop, whereas, with an outboard, you can turn the thrust and back away from the dock in a crosswind. An outboard can be easily turned within a very tight radius. A fixed prop can be turned in a slightly larger radius, but you have to know how, and be proficient at it.

On the plus side, fixed prop diesels rarely cavitate in rough seas, and operate on small quantities of fuel.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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Response Posted - 07/09/2002 : 07:30:58

I have little to add to what you, Steve and Arlyn have already stated. However, ease of maintenance and details of the installation would be top of my list. The outboard just slips off the transom (perhaps a little more difficult than just slips off) for maintenance, which doesn't require the boat to visit the mechanic with the motor. I am not sure how the cooling is handled with a saildrive but with an outboard it is easy visual check to ensure that it is operational. One of the things I liked most about the C-250 is the abscence of thru-hull fittings below the water line and I would want to see more detail on how the saildrive is installed, before I ordered a saildrive. The latter point is probably best handled by finding somebody with one and I have monitored the Assoc. forum for about two years and <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I'm thinking I only recall one owner who shared on the forum who had the inboard<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> also only recall one posting that had a saildrive.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 07/09/2002 07:36:28

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 07/09/2002 07:38:03

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Tupelo Honey
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2002 : 10:20:18

i would add that the last thing the 250 needs is the weight of an inboard engine at the stern.

good luck.

d

Catalina 250WB
Long Island Sound
"Tupelo Honey"
<BR><img src="http://www.stardive.org/tupelo.jpg"<img src

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bdehuff
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2002 : 22:43:45

Lawyer,

I've had a C250 with saildrive for 3 years now, and have been completely satisfied. I think there are very few C250 saildrives around, which accounts for the derth of positive responses in this forum. I believe the reason there are relatively few C250 inboard diesel applications has more to do with economics than it does with the pro's or con's of the saildrive. The inboard diesel option is about $8,500 vs. considerably less for an outboard engine.

My wife and I opted for the C250 wing keel with wheel steering and inboard diesel because we were not concerned with the total displacement of the boat. We knew we would keep our boat wet slipped year around, and would not be trailer sailing.

Firstly, let me counter the perception that inboard diesels are noisy and smelly. This may have been true of older generation diesel engines. However, the modern marine diesels made by Yanmar do not generate the fumes of older generation diesels.

Catalina installs a Yanmar 1GM10 9 HP, which is very compact, efficient, free of vibration, and well insulated in it's teak engine compartment below the companion way. Catlina supplies it with a 12 gal. steel fuel tank aft. The Yanmar 1GM10 "sips" fuel at 1 1/2 pints per hour at cruising speed (3400 rpm). Total cruising range under power between fuel stops is over 200 miles. I keep another 3 1/2 gallons of fuel under the pilot seat in the cockpit. This gives me over 15 gallons at a time without going back to the fuel pump.

Since the C250 is inherantly a "tender" boat (the low .25 ballast displacement/ratio is helped out only somewhat by form stability). Consequently, I like the extra 250 lbs of "ballast" provided by the inboard diesel down low on the centerline of the boat.

The "cutout" through hull for the saildrive is sealed by 2 seals. If one seal should ever fail a warning alarm will sound and a light will show on the engine panel in the cockpit. This will give you plenty of time to return to port to replace the seal. This has not happened to me.

I have had no maintenance problems in 3 years. Zero. Diesel engines run and run with minimal maintenance.

I cannot comment on the boat handling aspects of an inboard vs and outboard, as I have never had an outboard engine. All I know is there does not seem to be any "propwalk," and I have not had any steering problems. One thing, the prop on a saildrive is, of course, always "in" the water. This is a good thing in rough seas, but not a good thing if you want to look at it. You would have to either haul out to look at it, or dive on it. But, that is no different than on larger sailboats. Nice thing about the saildrive is there are no alignment problems or stuffing box to repack when it starts to leak. Cooling water comes in directly through the saildrive (lower engine case), which eliminates a second through hull.

Don't worry about the extra weight of the diesel saildrive option. My wife and I have added a lot of other additional weight to our boat (2nd battery, heating, refrigeration, autopilot, plus a lot of other "stuff", etc.) Our boat still cruises at max hull speed.

If you are not a trailer sailor, and if the cost of the engine is not a big issue, go for the saildrive. Don't worry about thourgh hull fittings. You will probably have others (like speed / depth transducers).

Blair Dehuff
"Tahoe Dream"
Hull #427

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2002 : 13:44:18

Blair,

A well done and very informative post!!! Thanks for all the good information. I assume another plus to the diesel is electric power to run all those onboard appliances you mentioned. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Does the sail drive rotate? Or is it in a fixed position?

Max Day
C250 WB 380
Lake Pleasant, AZ

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bdehuff
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2002 : 21:02:15

Max,

Thanks. I failed to mention the copious charging capability of the diesel engine, having a alternator (another plus). I use one battery as a starting battery, and a second one for everything else. I've never run out of juice.

The saildrive is in a fixed position and does not rotate. The engine itself is mounted on fairly beefy bushings, which absorb vibration. You feel no vibration in either the cabin or the cockpit. I might add that I been on some sailboats where you can actually see shrouds vibrating as soon as the diesel engine is fired up. Of course, the 1GM10 engine is very small and Catalina does a good job of mounting the engine.

Blair Dehuff
"Tahoe Dream"
Hull #427

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bdehuff
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2002 : 14:54:49

Last note. If you are concerned about the extra drag of a prop which is always in the water, you can invest in a folding prop. I have a Martec folding prop on my saildrive. The are kind of expensive, but they can reduce the drag considerably.

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puffin
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2002 : 10:20:10

I have a 2001 250 with a saildrive/diesel combination. Having sailed a Precision 21 with an outboard for several years, I've found the diesel an excellent choice for me. No breaking my back getting the outboard on and off the boat. The engine has turned out to be reliable, quiet, and virtually odorless. Maneuverability has been excellent. I am now able to back into my slip in order to ease loading and unloading. With the outboard this was nearly impossible.

If cost is not an issue, this is a great alternative.

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Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2002 : 11:32:38

I had an inboard Volvo Penta (gas saildrive) on my C25 (actually still installed just not working). The biggest problem I had was with the maintenance of the engine (which in my case the engine was 20 years old). We spent more time working on the engine than sailing which was a bit of a drag. I have since replaced the inboard (new one costs around 6-7k) with an outboard (new honda 9.9 for about 3k). To be honest, if the new inboard had been less expensive I would have purchased the inboard again. But the price of the inboard is about the same as another C25.

Shelby
"Third S"
'82 C25
#3208
SKSR
Lake Pleasant, AZ

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