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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Wind speed

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/25/2007 : 15:27:20

I'm taking a bit of a survey. In general, w/ the admiral and maybe a guest or two on board, what wind speed approaches a maximum comfortable level? I'm thinking I want to keep heeling to a max of 25 deg. At what point does a single reef need to go in and when is it better to just not go out?

It seems that around 10 knots, I can let the main run out a little and spill some wind and furl the gennie. Beyond that, I'm not so sure how to play things. I realize I need more experience and will learn over time, but I'm looking for a little sage advice - Thanks!

Jerry

Edited by - jerlim on 06/25/2007 15:28:06

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 16:15:24

Jerry,
I think a lot of it depends on the experience levels of both you and your guests. When I used to race, having a rail running in the water, and standing in water while grinding or what-have-you didn't bother me at all. I knew my crews and was confident of all of our abilities (well maybe not the owner's son, but that's another story). Now, my wife used to race as well, and I expected that she'd deal fairly well with heeling angles of up to maybe 20° or so, but that simply wasn't the case. She was used to a larger boat with far more crew, and with just the two of us, she felt overwhelmed and terrified starting at about 15° or so. This was in about 18-20kts of wind and a large sea right on our nose. We had our 110 jib up, and a tall rig. We've since purchased a storm jib, and I've completely reworked our reefing, as well as trained her on their use. I expect our next venture in heavy weather will go much better. I will take in my first reef at about fifteen knots (remember I've got a tall rig), and my next reef around twenty or so. Both of those are subject to experience, so I may adjust them up or down depending mostly on the look on Rita's face.

A ten knot wind is fine sailing weather, it gets interesting when it's twice that, and I doubt I'd venture out in much more. I've seen a few boats get knocked down during races and was glad of a very experienced skipper to learn when to shorten sail and deal with heavy weather in general. The confidence level of the skipper is paramount, even if you're scared witless, you can't let your crew know, as fear is very contagious. Don't put yourself into a situation where you're not confident, and know how to deal situations that put you outside your comfort zone. I've single handed my San Juan in conditions where I shouldn't have been out, I wouldn't have wanted to be a passenger on one of those days.

So, in summary, if you or your guests are new to sailing, anything much more than a ten knot wind might not give them the sailing experience you'd hoped for. If they are very experienced, a twenty knot wind and a single reef is a kick in the pants.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 17:13:07

On my SR/FK with a 135, 12 knots was perfect (maybe 15 degrees of heel) just as 10 knots would be with a TR. 15 called for a reef and maybe a slight headsail reduction (about 120), and above that I often used the genny alone, which rides and performs much better than the main alone (lower center of effort and sorta like front-wheel drive) Roller furling made things so much simpler--jumping up to corral the main as it came down in big seas can be much less fun.

But all of this develops and changes with experience. After a while, my late Admiral wasn't happy if we were under 15 degrees. The people who bought Passage wanted me to assure them they'd be able to bury the rail--I told them to canvas up in 17 knots and hang on!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/25/2007 17:16:01

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 11:51:28

Thanks guys - your responses are exactly the type of insights and experience I was looking for!
Best - jl

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 12:08:22

With novice guests, always fly a little smaller headsail than you would alone or with your racing buddies. Try to keep the boat to 15 to 20 degrees of heel. I'd rarely fly the 155 with novice guests. 110 if its windy, 135 if its light. If you start going over too far

(1) dump the main in gusts
(2) outhaul tight, move jib cars back
(3) traveller down

If that is too much, put in the flattening reef if you have it or go to the first reef. Run all lines now and practice at the dock.

If it is much over 20 knots of wind I probably would not take first timer guests out or if I did under reefed main and engine alone.

On the other hand

If it is much below 5 knots novice guests will probably not enjoy super light air sailing. Raise main for stability and motor them around, serve drinks and snacks. Play music. Drop the hook and take them for a swim.

Edited by - on

DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 13:40:57

I was out in a 20kt gusting to 30kts, I had a single reef in my main and a 100% jib, and it was a little edgy without the gusts, and darn right nasty with them. Luckily(?) I was closed hauled so I just pointed her up when the wind gusted and then came back off when it subsided. I know this isn't the fastest way to get where you're going, but I wasn't in a hurry. I should have put another reef in and it would have been much more comfortable and faster.

You're boat is fastest with a heel of ~15 degrees or so, any more than that and it's just wetter since the sails start spilling alot of the wind at that point. So put a small jib up, reef the main before you go out, and everyone, including the boat, will be happy. You can always shake out the reefs if you feel you're not going fast enough. But trying to put one in with an inexperienced crew on board could be bad for thier nerves.

DaveC25

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 16:28:08

With two guests, (a total of four crew) I would be reefed leaving the dock thinking that I could unfurl the reef if everyone was comfortable or the weather turned down a notch. With guests, I would not be going past 15 degrees heel, unless they requested more heel. As mentioned, 12-17 degrees is prime territory for a C25.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 18:01:22

I remember taking my grandsons out for the first time (6 & 4 yrs old).
We only had up the 110 and the boys were sitting on the lee side of the bow when we got hit by a gust and heeled about 20+ degrees. I thought I'd never get them on the boat again. They looked back and yelled "grandpa, can we do that again"...you never know with kids

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 21:00:31

If I have guests, such as my wife, aboard and the winds are such that it produces an uncomfortable amount of heel, I'll just simply not sail close to the wind. One time last year I had a friend out for a day sail and we were sailing on a close reach all day in a fairly stiff breeze with full main and a 135. I commented that most sailors in the marina wouldn't come out on a day like this and my somewhat puzzled friend asked, "Why not, conditions seem perfect?" to which I said, "Let me show you."

I then hardened up the sheets and directed my friend to come up to the wind. We immediately heeled waaaay over and we were standing sideways in the cockpit. My friend sort of freaked out that the boat was heeled over so far and it felt like the wind was now screaming. After a few seconds, we came a little off the wind and I eased the sheets. The boat settled and the wind no longer seemed as fierce.

Moral of the story...You don't have to sail tight to the wind.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2007 : 22:41:51

Edited by - on

DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2007 : 07:44:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Moral of the story...You don't have to sail tight to the wind.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is, unless you have to stay in a channel or are trying to get somewhere specific. When I was close hauled i nthe stiff breeze I mentioned earlier, I was trying to sail back home, which was north west 20 miles up the intracoastal through the barge channel between some islands, and the wind was out of the north. :(

The outboard was out of commission at the time, so the obvious option was no option.

Edited by - DaveC25 on 06/27/2007 07:49:27

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2007 : 10:40:54

ICW in the barge channel with no motor...?? Is this a death wish?

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DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2007 : 08:10:36

It isn't really a barge 'canal', maybe I mis-spoke, It's just a channel dredged though the middle of the intracoastal since in alot of places it's really shallow.

Barges only come through very rarely. Throughout the day only three passed me. When they would approach from the rear I would just turn around and broad reach by them going the opposite direction. I lost ground, but it is safe. If they approached from the front I would just heave-to on the lee side until they went by. If I were to start drifting out of the channel, which i didn't because they move along fairly quickly, I could have just unsheeted the jib and maintained a "relatively" slow broad reach under reefed main until they passed.

If you're willing to yield, it's not that big of a deal.

Edited by - DaveC25 on 06/28/2007 08:18:32

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2007 : 08:33:47

Last night I went out with my small jib (not sure of its exact size but max is its 100% may be an 80). Shoreline weather station recorded winds 20-26 kts while I was sailing. With the small jib and no reef, traveler down and the main sheeted out until it was just starting to get backwinded by the jib I was doing 5.8 kts in a close reach with 20 degrees of heal. o reef in the main (didn't feel it was needed). Waves were large but on a close reach I wasn't pounding through them. I was singlehanding and cross-sheeting helps tremendously. It wasn't uncomfortable at all.

When I sheeted in and headed up weather helm increased significantly and speed dropped to 4.8-5.1 kts. If I had the 110/120 on I know I would've been healing much more and going slower probably.

Moral - over 20 kts - use the small jib!

Edited by - on

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