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nalderson
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2007 : 14:37:48

This accident happened over the weekend here in Charleston, SC. As if any of us need a gentle reminder of the dangers on the water when people are irresponsible. The worst part to me is the operator of the tour boat not even stopping to assist in recovery!!!

Tour boat smashes sailboat at regatta
By Edward C. Fennell (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Monday, July 23, 2007

Joel Lambinus unfurled the sail on his 14-foot Laser on Sunday and then happened to glance backward.

What Lambinus saw made him leap for his life. A Fort Sumter tour boat loaded with tourists was bearing down.

"I looked over my shoulder, and I saw the boat, about 75 yards away and headed dead straight for me," said Lambinus, 57, an experienced sailor who was competing in the Charleston Yacht Club Open Regatta.

Witnesses told the Coast Guard the tour boat was the 102-foot-long, 32-foot-wide, 97-ton, Spirit of Charleston, and that the vessel was crossing an area reserved for sailboat racing. As Lambinus swam to avoid being pulled under the tour boat, it cracked and broke his sailboat, tearing chunks of it with its propeller.

Lambinus said he felt his legs bumping the hull of the tour boat, and he feared the propeller would slice him up, too.

"By the grace of God, I was able to get away," he said. "When I popped up, I realized that if I had stayed in the boat I would have been mincemeat."

Owners of Fort Sumter Tours could not be reached Sunday for comment.

Lambinus had been one of about 40 people in one-person sailboats preparing to compete in the regatta. Instead, he spent much of the day at Medical University Hospital's emergency room.

"I have bruises and contusions here and there," he said. "I'm beat up, but I'm not going to die."

The Coast Guard is investigating the 12:20 p.m. incident. Investigators had no comment.

Sylvia Galloway and Fran Trotman, who operated a safety boat at the regatta, witnessed the collision from a few hundred yards away. They said the tour boat did not stop at the scene after the collision, and its operator did not return calls until after returning from Fort Sumter to peninsular Charleston.

Galloway said the tour boat "came absolutely straight down the middle" of the nearly one-mile-diameter area near Castle Pinckney reserved for the weekend's races. The tour boat "never slowed down until the sailboat popped out of the back and never hailed either of us to see if the sail boater was OK," she said.

Galloway displayed copies of race permits, with restricted areas outlined, approved by the state Department of Natural Resources and the Coast Guard.

Lambinus, a construction company owner from West Ashley who holds a captain's license, said he can't stop thinking about what might have happened had he not jumped. "A Laser sits 6 inches above the water, and that boat is four stories tall and 100-something feet long," he said.

He recalled hearing a woman aboard the tour boat scream as he hit the water. "I thought, what a hell of a way to die. I'm going to die underneath a tour boat in Charleston. What kind of a way to die is that?"

250 WB "Gina Marie" Hull #673

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 15:03:58

Joel Lambinus floats in the water Sunday next to his capsized Laser sailboat.

Just another power boater without a clue.

Not more than 10 minutes ago, a coworker was telling me how a power boater cut him off barefly missing his bow and yesterday, a power boater thought nothing of cutting me off at our channel entrance as if I weren't even there. He then proceeded to try to pass the sailboat ahead of him, but with oncoming traffic it would have made it three wide so he backed off and got in line with the rest of us.

Edited by - dlucier on 07/23/2007 15:16:02

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 16:37:33

Guys like that tour boat captain oughta lose their license.

I, too, have to go through a channel that is frequented by ferries, etc. I once got the bejesus scared out of me by a hydroplaning ferry captain blowing his horn in order to get me to move. It never occurred to him that, while he might have had the right of way due to restricted maneuverability(or the law of gross tonnage), he could have slowed down!!!! I got out of the way without much trouble and was probably never in real danger but, tell that to my 8 year old.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 17:34:19

I was just about to post a 'Is Boat US reading this' article, but this thread segways nicely into the recall of the event this weekend.

We took JD down to John Pennekamp State park this weekend, we have been there 3 times previously, their slips are about $40 per night including park entrance and truck/trailer parking.

There is a winding, mangrove lined channel from the park to the ocean. To the north is Largo Lake which has access to the bay side via a small channel or two. We're pretty familiar with the area, having arrived from the ocean and by trailer, and we have experienced the crazies that haven't realized that the throttle is not an off on switch.

On Sunday we were returning from a rough ocean, stormy afternoon, and heading in through the channel. A 'Fountain' power boat charged past us at what must have been full throttle just as we were passing a red channel marker pole in a narrow area of the channel. His wake literally pushed us towards the pole! we were headed broadside what felt like surfing sideways on his Stern wake. I spun the wheel to port to turn away from the pole which meant we were now headed across the narrow channel. I was looking at the rusty pole getting closer hoping that I would be able to spin the wheel to stbd to push the stern to port and get us around it... but then the guy that was chasing the Fountain, came through, running the gap between us and far side of the channel, not that far! I span the wheel, but we were still being spun around by the first boats wake, it felt like an eternity and the 2nd boat screeched past barely, by inches, missing our bow, or was it our bow barely missing his stern! I honestly thought we would collide, how he squeezed through is amazing, my nerves did not do so well, they were scraped severely! My throat only handled a couple of insults to the disappearing vessel before it cracked and is still horse.

We got back to the marina, tied up with the help of the park service dock master, and he realized I was 'shaken' and listened agreeably as I recanted the event. He said we should note their vessel id and report it... Trust me, trying to see the aU*((ole's vessel id was the last thing on my mind.
We took a walk around the marina complex hoping the stroll would calm my nerves. After 10mins or so, we met with one of the local sheriff deputies that operates one of the high speed go getem boats. I asked for his input. He commented that he was aware of how we must have felt as he was way back and saw the boats careening in the channel (not in the no wake zone, which power boaters tend to think means 'charge!') he had held his place astern of us by about a quarter mile but by then we were in the no wake zone and things had eased up. He was not in view when the Fountain blew past us.

The deputy explained that even he had issues with the quality of power-boater responsibility. He had experience of being alongside a small boat giving assistance when a power boat wash past almost causing injury. he explained how he has to make the decision "Do I leave the stranded boater and chase the reckless driver, or do I stay on the scene to continue providing assistance?"

The deputy explained how it is particularly bad at weekends and during the upcoming Mini Lobster season (starts at midnight this Wednesday morning). He commented that legislators fail to provide laws that can be used to curb the bad behavior on the water.

This event was actually only the worst of several we experienced this weekend. Earlier another boater had charged past us, only about 4' from our port side again in a narrow channel (any of you that have visited the area know that it's all 'narrow'!) I was on the bow preparing the docking lines, we were in a no wake zone! the water almost came over the bow! I screamed at the driver to slow down, he turned and saw what his wake was doing and then realized he was in a no wake zone.

So... Boat US, are you reading this! What education is being aimed at the idiot boater.. I'm moving rapidly towards the 'Boaters driving test' caucus right now.

We cut short our weekend because of the bad weather, but I must admit, the event on Sunday will very clearly help me decide on using the marina at any weekend in the future. In short, bad driving affects the local marinas bottom line! -

Seething in South Florida.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 17:36:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...I once got the bejesus scared out of me by a hydroplaning ferry captain blowing his horn in order to get me to move...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John: Did you have your VHF on? Were you monitoring Ch 13 or whatever else is used in your area for commercial bridge-to-bridge communication? When you first see somebody like that approaching, you can ask him what he'd like you to do. He might be very appreciative. Also, around here, they broadcast "securite" calls to state their situation and intentions. Responses are welcomed. Anybody operating around commercial traffic should be familiar with and monitor this communication.

Sarge out and standing by on 1-3 and 1-6.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/23/2007 17:38:17

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 18:20:35

Yeah, Dave, I was listening. There was no Securite call. He just came barreling into the channel up on his two hulls and blasted the d@^* horn. I've seen this particular ferry company in and out of the channel a lot and never hear a Securite from them. The coal barges, yes; another ferry company, yes; but these guys, never.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 19:23:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Guys like that tour boat captain oughta lose their license.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That really sucks and I'm glad the gentleman is all right and just a little bumped up as opposed to what could have been the alternative.

BUT...
Keep in mind we are only getting one side of the story and this one seems very bias with a lot of shaky facts. You usually get a permit to hold a regatta in a certain area but it is pretty rare - ie Americas Cup rare - that the area is a prohibited zone. Key West Race Week, Miami Acura, Cleland Race week - all have permits, but none are prohibted zones. Especially in Charleston, that area is so congested there really isn't anywhere for commercial traffic to go. They sure as hell aren't going to stop the tourist business for a couple of laser sailors.
I raced Charleston Race week and we had races blown off for commercial vessels in the channel. Races postponed for ferries etc. That race is by far the biggest race those guys have every year, if it doesn't get preferential treatment I don't think this weekend laser regatta is going to have a lot of pull.

The race courses are set up for the smaller boaters (laser qualifies) well out of the way of the ferry channels and if anything
the ferry line sits on the edge of one of the marks. Ferries go in straight lines they don't deviate - why was he where he was? The PRO's aren't going to put a start line in the middle of the ferry traffic. Plus - the help boats aren't going to be around the start line.

Another sketchy fact, this guy just unfurled his sail - he doesn't have auxilliary propulsion so he had to be either A. Towed out or B. Sailed out. If he sailed out it really gets sketchy, if he was towed out, where was the tow, you have to have somebody watching the boat behind. Pretty odd that they missed this thing its 100 feet long. You generally unfurl the sail before you cut the tow line too....

Lastly, Something 100 feet isn't going to stop for the laser - I would bet he didn't know he even hit the darn thing. By the time he did who is he going to call? Ghost busters? They don't normally keep a record of which race course PRO picked what channel for any particular day.

I'm going to jump over to SA and see what those guys are saying about it...this one doesn't seem to have all the facts

Edited by - Champipple on 07/23/2007 19:25:12

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 19:34:41

Yeah, Duane, I wondered about the "permit" thing. Sounded wierd to me, too. But, the point remains that if he couldn't have stopped or maneuvered to avoid collision, he should have made some connection afterward. Boats of that size take a long time to stop. That doesn't mean that they can't stop.

There is no mention in the original post of the area being a restricted navigation channel, etc. So, it could be that the big guy was somewhere he shouldn't have been.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/23/2007 19:36:45

Champipple
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 20:08:12

The Cooper and Ashley rivers make up that harbor area. I don't know exacts for certain because I haven't looked at the chart - nor do I plan on it - but tidal flows in there get really tricky along with depths. I remember we could walk out to our boat from the parking lot and it was about a half mile walk. All of which was on a dock. At low tide we could have walked 3/4 of the way there without walking on the dock.

Usually, commercial vessels inside restricted areas have right of way. There is an arguement going on over at sailing anarchy that this guy wasn't under restricted mobility - as usual over there no one will win the fight. The opinions are abou 60 40 in favor of the Spirit of Charleston captain right now, but most of those guys hate small boat sailors too. Sooner than later though a Charleston native will pipe up on that forum and we will get more details.

www.sailinganarchy.com is the site...

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 20:52:41

I looked at a picture of the little tour boat--just over 100' with a low main deck, a forward pilot house, and therefore very good visibility. That captain could have seen and avoided a lobster pot marker if he wanted to, and he certainly would have seen a Laser. Yes, the racecourse was probably not restricted, but I don't think that little tour boat needed to run anybody down.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/23/2007 20:56:09

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 21:07:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...I've seen this particular ferry company in and out of the channel a lot and never hear a Securite from them. The coal barges, yes; another ferry company, yes; but these guys, never.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Maybe a letter to the company, copying the local Coast Guard station... Seems to me if they want to stay on plane through a narrow channel with extremely limited ability to maneuver, they'd better give some warning. The Coasties might help impress that on them.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2007 : 07:24:01

Frank: Have you considered the obvious--that powerboaters are even more likely to be packing than you... and that your powerboater might have fired back with REAL BULLETS? Those of us who drive cars in NYC, LA, and Houston think about those things!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/24/2007 : 14:39:54

Frank, could you send me your full name, date of birth and SS# please? I would like to take out a life insurance policy on you with me as the beneficiary.

Edited by - on

suttergold
1st Mate

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/24/2007 : 15:01:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 We have concealed carry here in Kansas, I believe firing on a vessel who has put you in eminent danger is wholly defensible, I would do it. (Shoot the boat, not the boater.) I have fired our starting gun at a power boat blaring rap crap; he left.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Frank, are you serious?

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/24/2007 : 16:44:08

Scary, isn't it?

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suttergold
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 07/24/2007 : 19:25:19

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tinob
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Response Posted - 07/28/2007 : 13:15:44

I recall an episode similar to what's being discussed in which a powerboater, young, perhsps 20 years on the planet, thought it entertaing to roar circles around our stationary boat with the Admiral and two toddlers on board. The more I reacted to this bad behavior the more he roared on...since I was in neighborhood waters I saw no reason to be armed...glad I wasn't...he'd be toast...On the way home I saw the boat in a driveway and stopped to speak with the homeowner...turned out to be the father /owner of the boat. He was apologetic and said he'ld handle the situation,,,,Never saw that boat on the waters again.

Sometimes discourse rises above the sword.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2007 : 07:32:32

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 07/30/2007 : 13:15:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What don't you get? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave,

The

wasn't aimed at Val. It was aimed at a reply that no longer exists.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/30/2007 : 16:35:54

Don: What are you replying to?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/30/2007 16:36:59

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2007 : 18:10:48

Aaarrrggghhh! Me thinks there be a defender of the seas amongst us... Here are some better toys to carry. You can do the same stuff as frank described, but it will take you longer to load and hopefully the threat will have passed.

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

sten
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2007 : 09:47:51

wow

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Justin
Admiral

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Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 08:18:54

Here is an update to this story http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,147213,00.html?ESRC=coastguard.nl

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Coast Guard charged Captain O.C. Polk, the operator of the Spirit of Charleston, with negligence and misconduct for his role in the collision and for failing to report the incident to the Coast Guard. As part of the settlement agreement approved by an Administrative Law Judge, Polk will serve a three-month outright suspension of his Coast Guard issued license and must complete a Coast Guard approved vessel piloting and navigation course. Failure to complete the terms of the agreement will result in a 15-month outright suspension of Polk's license.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

stampeder
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Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 15:32:04

After much lobbying, we finally got two 'no wake' signs posted on the dock at our little lake. (previous attempts were rebuffed because there is no-one to enforce the rules!?!)
For the Rednecks who buy powerboats with over-sized engines and stereos, these signs mean 'no limits'.
I get PO'd frequently and confront quite a few Powerboaters on the ramp and around the dock. They generally, honestly don't know what a wake is. Seems that the ones that do, don't care.

On Canada's west coast, there are many Ferry - pleasure boat accidents. The general problem is; Our big old ferrys can't stop - ther're too big and are going too fast. Furthermore, the understand that legally, because they are on a schedule, they have right of way, even over sailboats under sail.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 20:15:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 ...The general problem is; Our big old ferrys can't stop - ther're too big and are going too fast. Furthermore, the understand that legally, because they are on a schedule, they have right of way, even over sailboats under sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Huh?? I don't recall the COLREGS saying anything about schedules! Limited ability to maneuver (including stop), yes. Then there's the unwritten rule of tonnage... When I see a ferry several miles away, I immediately start planning on how to be out of his way--especially if he's a big catamaran fast-ferry. They close on you in a big hurry!

Then there are the submarines going in and out of Groton... You need to be a long way from them or you get the attention of a guided missile cruiser or destroyer and some really ugly black gunboats!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
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Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 23:08:44

Mike (stampeder) is there more powerboaters at our lake since the new ramp is open? Was trying to find a word to describe the typical stereotype powerboater at this lake and you hit the nail straight on the head with "redneck". Not only are they ignorant, but they are totaly oblivious to any form of respect and basic courtesy. No sense of even trying to explain something to them. Hit my boat, trailer and never show the least concern as if all was normal. Heck they don't even look at me and I'm about 10 feet away from them (like if they are in their protective bubble or something, like when driving a car). I come back with a new idiot's tale after every weekend, and start to get used to it. However I swear my stories get worse every time. I'm suprised I haven't seen fights. The exception seems to be the smaller powerboats though.

Another sign we need are at the 2 inside docks closest to the ramp. Last week we had a few park small boats right there and we couldn't back up our trailer. Something like a 15 minute maximum.

Gonna be on the lake fishing tomorrow with my 2 kids, extending the long weekend.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/30/2007 23:12:35

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