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Single-handed tack and jibe techniques?

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DaveC25
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USA
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Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 13:57:34

Can you elaborate on how you feel it would invite disaster?

I have raised sails while underway, as I mentioned, but putting the tiller tamer on it, and then running up to raise the sails while she is underway before she turns off course is more dangerous to me than raising them while anchored. If I had an autopilot or another crew on board steering, then raising while motoring would be fine. But for singlehanding, which is most of my sailing, this way is the safest approach I have found without automatic steering, and more importantly, the most relaxing. If for some reason a halyard gets jammed or a sheet is tangled, there is no rush. I can just take my time and make sure everything is set before I let her loose.

To put the sails up at anchor, I merely drop the anchor, unsheet the boom and jib sheets, and then raise the sails. I start with the main, and as it goes up the boat of course is wandering back and forth on the anchor, however since the sail is luffing because the boom is allowed to swing there is never any pressure on it. Once the main is up, I then put up the jib with the sheets loose. when I'm through, I have both the main and the jib luffing no matter the angle of the boat to the wind, because the sheets are loose. I then walk forward on the windward side to the bow, pull her up to anchor, and wait until she swings on anchor to the tack I want to leave on. I then pop the anchor loose and pull it up and store it in the locker while she starts to drift to lee on that tack, sails still luffing in the wind. I then walk back on the windward side to the cockpit and pull in the main sheet, she then starts to sail on her way, and when she picks up speed I turn her up a little and pull in the jib. It's very simple and very easy. There is no danger of running into anything because she doesn't move very fast backwards with slack sails.

I have done it in 20 knot winds gusting to 30, with a reefed main as well.

Of course, if there is another boat nearby downwind of you then you could not do it this way, but I wouldn't anchor in that situation knowing that I was going to do it that way.

To take them down, I just turn her into the wind where I want to drop anchor, hold her on course until she almost stops, then I unsheet the sails and walk up on the windward side (you can tell which way she is starting to fall off) and then put put the anchor out and set it. She is now settled at anchor with her sails luffing in the wind, and I can take the sails down at my leisure in the reverse order.

You could consider it the exact same way you would sail off of a mooring, except that it's an anchor instead of a mooring. Once upon a time sailboats didn't have motors, and people somehow managed. :)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Dave25,

You've mentioned before your anchoring technique for raising sails and I was wondering if you've ever raised your sails without anchoring?

In my sailing venue, dropping anchor to raise the sails is inviting disaster.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - DaveC25 on 08/08/2007 14:22:42

John Russell
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Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 14:40:31

Am I right in assuming that you drop the hook off the stern? If not, unless you have a remote controlled windlass, you're going on deck anyhow so why not just hoist away? If you point her into the wind and release the sheets, I'd think she'd stay put long enough to hoist sails without anchoring???? You could idle forward with just enough motor to keep iit nose to the wind, but not enough to really make much forward progress.

If it works for you, Great!!! It just seems like an extra step to me though.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 16:47:59

Dave, my only objection to anchoring before raising the sails is that it's alot of unnecessary work to lower the anchor, set it, raise it, put it away, and then clean that nasty mud off the foredeck.

I understand your concern about the boat wandering off course if you raise the sails while underway, but that can be avoided.

First, uncover your mainsail, remove all the sail ties except maybe one, release the boom vang, ease the topping lift and attach the main halyard in advance, so that all you have to do to raise the mainsail is pull the halyard and cleat it off.

Do the same with your jib. Hank it on, and attach the halyard and the sheets, so that all you have to do to raise the jib is pull the halyard and cleat it off.

You can do all that at the dock, or you can motor out to a place where there are no other boats and just let the boat drift while you do it.

If the wind is really light, it doesn't even matter whether or not the boat is pointed into the wind. You can just raise the mainsail, and then raise the jib. If the wind is that light, the boat won't go anywhere very far in the time it takes you to raise them.

If there is more wind, then you should motor to windward at minimal speed. Set the tiller tamer. Go forward and raise the mainsail first and cleat the halyard. Come back to the cockpit and steer the boat onto a course that is about 60 degrees off the wind. You can adjust the tiller tamer and the mainsheet fairly easily so that the boat will continue to sail on that course, almost indefinitely and very reliably, under the mainsail alone. After the boat is sailing on its own under mainsail alone, then shut off the engine and tilt the prop out of the water.

When you have the boat sailing in this manner under mainsail alone, it will, as I said, continue to self-steer very reliably. Make sure both jibsheets are free, so that the jib will luff when you raise the jib. You can then go forward and raise the jib and cleat the halyard. Go back to the cockpit and sheet in the jib.

The idea is to do as much of the rigging as you can in advance, so that you don't have to be away from the tiller so long. You only have to hoist the sail and cleat it. The other key is to learn how to make the boat self-steer reliably. It isn't difficult when you raise the mainsail first, put the boat on about a 60 deg. angle to the wind and use a tiller tamer. Once you are able to put the boat on a course and leave the tiller with complete assurance that the boat will not wander off, you can take as much time as you need to raise the jib and do whatever else needs to be done. Also remember that speed is your enemy. The faster the boat is going, the more distance it will cover while you are away from the tiller, going forward to raise the sails. If the boat covers a greater distance, there's a greater likelihood that it will encounter another boat while you're raising the sails. Keep the boatspeed as slow as possible.

When you lower the sails, do the same thing in reverse. Completely release the jibsheets, letting the jib luff. Steer the boat onto a 60 deg. course to the wind and adjust the mainsail and set the tiller tamer so that the boat is sailing on the mainsail alone. Go forward and take the jibsheet in one hand, so the jib won't fall into the water, and then release the jib halyard and let the jib fall onto the foredeck. If there's a lot of wind, I also take a bungee forward and bungee the jib down, so the wind doesn't lift it. Then lower the mainsail. With both sails down, the boat will drift slowly, giving you plenty of time to do whatever needs to be done.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/08/2007 16:56:19

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 19:39:21

...all that or lead your halyards (and a jib dousing line) aft to the cockpit. Where I sailed, heavy chop tended to push the bow around in a hurry, especially if the boat was not under way. If I had to raise anchor with all sails up, I might be running downwind by the time it was stowed.

I kept the engine pushing her into the wind at 2-3 knots, bungeed the tiller, pulled the main halyard from the cockpit and clutched it, sheeted in and set a course, killed and raised the engine, and then pulled out the genny. If I hadn't had roller furling, I'd have had the jib halyard and a dousing line led back to the cockpit, too. I admire folks who run around the foredeck singlehanded, but I never wished to be one of them.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/08/2007 19:42:39

stampeder
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Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 20:51:47

Pam has a great observation: you can take your time.

With a furling jib, you've got a distinct advantage for single-handing.
I've got a hank-on, and as mentioned, use a dousing line. Rig a dousing line through the top three or four hanks for best results. (another great tip from Frank Hopper)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 21:52:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveC25
 Can you elaborate on how you feel it would invite disaster?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In my sailing venue, retrieving the anchor is no simple task since it has about 50lbs of mud and seaweed attached to it. The first, and only, time I anchored this season, it took me about 15 minutes to clear it using my boat hook just to get it out of the water. I was having such a time with it, I debated just cutting it loose. Add a little wave action, a very wet, muddy foredeck, and then throw in raising and lowering sails, and you have a recipe for disaster. I can't imagine trying to retrieve my anchor with sails up.

If this technique works for you, great, but if I had to set an anchor every time I raised and lowered my sails, I'd sell my boat.

You might want to look at leading your lines aft.

Edited by - on

DaveC25
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152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 22:47:39

Everyone has good points. Cheers.

One day I'll install a boom vang and topping lift to perhaps help out with it. I have a small Fortress anchor that I use for putting the sails up. It's light weight, and I don't have to let out a 7:1 scope as if I was staying overnight, just enough to hold the boat temporarily. When I pull it up, I just shake it back and forth in the water to get the flukes flopping over a few times and that's usually enough to get the mud off.

I guess it's habit since when the boat does stay in the water, it's moored.

Fair winds....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 23:07:37

You don't have a topping lift??

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 08/09/2007 : 08:24:29

If used when hoisting the main, the factory "pigtail" is just an accident waiting to happen. After having several negative experiences with the pigtail on my first boat, it was the first thing to go when I got my C25.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/09/2007 : 08:42:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 If used when hoisting the main, the factory "pigtail" is just an accident waiting to happen....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You got that right! But apparently Dave doesn't do that--he must hoist the boom out of the cockpit and drop it back in. Yug...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/09/2007 08:46:13

dlucier
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 07:14:52

I'm not sure what's worse, using the pigtail or letting the boom fall into the cockpit.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 07:45:40

I loved the pig tail on the C-22 I had in the 80's. Have a topping lift now on Bamboo but was wondering what the down side of a pig tail is.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 08:26:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 but was wondering what the down side of a pig tail is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thinking that your main is going to luff as you hoist or drop it, and having it inadvertently fill and start driving the boat at a moment and in a direction that creates a problem--then having to jump up on the seat to release it, only to find you can't because of the extreme pressure on the hook...

Another variation--you're on a mooring (or on the hook), hoist the main, forget to release the pigtail, go forward to release the mooring or hoist the anchor (thinking the main will luff), and

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/10/2007 08:31:05

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 09:22:24

Can't imagine a C25 without a proper topping lift. (For the reasons Dave cited above. 'been there done that'.)

IMHO: If you don't have one, add one. Relatively inexpensive improvement. I suggest a 'full' setup run from the deck up through a block at the masthead. This setup provides a spare halyard... which you'll probably need someday.

Edited by - on

Don B
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 17:05:45

I love my pigtail!...but seriously folks, when my boat was new to me I did forget to release the pigtail a few times but now it's just part of the mental pre-sail check list...remove mainsail cover, check...release pigtail, check. After attaching the pigtail to the boom and trimming the main sheet, that boom is secure, steady, and not going anywhere. Oh, I also have a topping lift.

You've been great, drive safely, and we'll see you again tomorrow night at the Boca del Tortuga Lounge.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 18:35:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don B
 ...now it's just part of the mental pre-sail check list...remove mainsail cover, check...release pigtail, check. After attaching the pigtail to the boom and trimming the main sheet, that boom is secure, steady, and not going anywhere. Oh, I also have a topping lift.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Okay, I'll bite...If you have a topping lift why do you use the pigtail?

My boom is also secure, steady, and not going anywhere when I tension the mainsheet.

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Don B
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Response Posted - 08/10/2007 : 20:33:08

When I'm cleaning up after a sail, I'm climbing everywhere...the boom being attached to the pigtail seems to provide extra support in the way of less side to side movement (I may have an inch or so play on the topping lift). Also, if my topping lift happened to fail, I thought the pigtail might provide nice redundancy.

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