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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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I can't believe how fast my Catalinas sails..

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josh-hansen
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/07/2007 : 22:05:46

After reading forums for years I got the impression that our boats (mine is a 82 C25 SR FK)are too slow to race and should only cruise. Now that I have a knotmeter installed and have started racing, I have to disagree, I've been hitting 6 kts steadily. Nautilus is having no problem keeping up and pointing with the competition. We've been racing Columbia 26's and Catalina 27's that have not been able to catch us (no comments about their crew). We have competed in 2 beer can races now and are climbing up the ranks with a 5th place and then 3rd (out of 12). All this with a green crew and old sails.

I gotta say I'm loving my C25 now.

BTW- what are your guy's PHRF no's? They gave me a 238.

Josh Hansen

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 05:20:37

238 for a strictly JAM fleet sounds pretty resonable. That is where we used to be on Lake Erie prior to a 3 point shift for 98% of the boats. When we sold her the rating was 241.

And remember - fast is a relative term

Edited by - Champipple on 08/08/2007 08:36:52

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 09:21:03

The remarkable performance of the C25 is one of Catalina's best kept secrets. The C25 has a waterline length almost equal to that of the C27, but it's much lighter in weight. With a choice of tall and standard rigs, you can get increased sail area. A light-weight boat with ample sail area and a long waterline should ordinarily be able to sail faster than a much heavier boat with a similar waterline length and sail area. The light weight will allow it to accelerate more quickly than the heavier C27, and, in strong winds, it'll surf more easily than a heavier boat when running downwind. The equal waterline length will permit it to reach the same theoretical maximum hull speed as the C27. I've sailed my C25 against tall and standard rig C27s, with and without inboard engines, and never saw a C27 that could consistently beat a C25.

The results you're seeing aren't a fluke. I owned my C25 from 1981 to about 2004, and, even in the last couple of years it continued to amaze me with it's ability. I wish now that I had kept my C25, to race on the Chesapeake Bay, because the C27s have to give C25s handicap time.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2007 : 12:08:05

Shucks, I wish they would give me a 238 rating. I'd scare that J-24!!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2007 : 05:25:28

PHRF rating for Spinnaker is 231 around here - and the J-24 is fairly safe even with that rating coming in about a minute slower at 177. You might scare him up until the point he rounds the weather mark and gets the boat up and out of the water on the downwind leg.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2007 : 11:20:58

That doesn't happen Duane. When we race against each other it's PHRF Non-Spinnaker. His rating is 170 and mine is 222. I have beaten him twice in the last "n" years, always with the help of a fortuitous wind line!!

Edited by - Derek Crawford on 08/09/2007 11:22:06

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2007 : 12:58:52

The yacht club where I lived has three one-design fleets that race on Sundays: J-24s, Sonars (23' fin-keeled daysailers), and Pearson Ensigns (23' classic hulls with long overhangs and long keels). The Js have young Wall Street hotshot crews, the Sonars typically have two couples (might be a class rule), and the Ensigns have us old fogies. They start the Js first, then the Sonars, then the Ensigns (so each fleet sails away from the one behind it). On really heavy air days with 3-4' chop, a few of the Ensigns sail right through the other two fleets, to the great chagrin of the young turks!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/09/2007 13:01:27

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2007 : 09:55:42

I too have found, along with my fellow club competition, that the C25 is nothing to sneeze at speed-wise. The boat is particularly fast down wind and generally handles heavy air much better than the boats I race against. Usually the only thing that keeps me out of the top seven places is bad tacking decisions. For me the boats to beat in our fleet are a Santa Cruz 40, S2 9.8, Hunter 34, a Laser 28, a Tartan 28 Piper, a Siedelman 25, and recently a C&C 24. I was able to beat the Hunter, Tartan, and Seidelman twice last week sailing single handed in winds 5-15. The Santa Cruz didn't race. I am content.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 10:07:13

I can't say I ever saw a J24 plane and I raced them for years, but I did sail on a J22 in heavy air and it easily planed.

After owning my C25 for all of these years, I continue to be amazed at its up-wind performance, particularly in moderate to heavy air. It's a delight to pass other boats that should be able to out-point me.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2008 : 08:53:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stardog
 I can't say I ever saw a J24 plane and I raced them for years, but I did sail on a J22 in heavy air and it easily planed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've seen photos of J24s planing, and, if you've ever exceeded hull speed to a significant extent, sailing downwind in 20 knot winds or more, you were probably planing.

A couple of years ago, I crewed on an old 1960s vintage Coronado 30, and we raced 70 miles downwind in 20-25 knot winds. She had to be planing much of the time, because she maintained about 8 1/2 knots for long periods of time, and she topped out at 9 knots. As far as I can tell, the boat doesn't look or feel any differently to the crew when she's planing. The only reason I was so sure we were planing is because we were going so fast, and the water made a continuous hissing sound. I don't know of any other explanation as to how a boat can exceed hull speed so much, unless it has climbed up over it's own bow wave and is surfing ahead of it.

I suppose if we had thought to look over the side at the bow wave, we would have been able to see whether the boat was surfing ahead of it or not, but the race was mostly at night, and truthfully, I never thought to look.

Edited by - on

BengeB
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 16:47:32

I wish I felt my c-25 was fast. Please respond to my post "Boat Speed" I need some tips. By the way if you don't know your planing then you probably are not.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 12:46:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 And remember - fast is a relative term<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's for sure!

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