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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Sailing Characteristics Swing vs Wing vs Fin

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 14:13:16

Welcome Bill! Click on Search (above), in "Search for" type "wing swing race point", select the Catalina-25 Specific forum and Entire Message. Then click Search, wait a minute, and enjoy! Then get back to us for more opinions...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/24/2007 14:26:32

tight
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 14:42:51

Thanks Dave. I'll have to learn my way around this web site. Then the next step will be to change my profile. I'll get there one of these days!

-Bill Hurni
C22 Rubber Ducky

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 21:47:11

Gary,

$16K for an '89...that guy is living in a dream world. I would be surprised if anyone is going to buy it for that.
The comment your wife had about going smaller than the 25' is similar to my thinking when I first looked at a Beneteau First 23. I was very interested in it because it had a nice design to it and believe it is a fast boat. The interior is actually interesting as to how they have it layed out also with a chart table. But the boat I was looking at had a slightly musty smell to it and the interior was a bit confining. The Catalina 25' I had already looked at had no musty smell, clean dry bilge and the cabin did not feel confining. I thought my wife would be much more satisfied with it....but I bought it without her...she wasn't thrilled about going around looking for a boat. BUt...she does like it now that we have been sailing and have slept overnight in it.

By the way...tomorrow is our 30th wedding anniversary !

If that guy does not come down significantly in the cost of the '89, then forgeddabout him. There are other catalinas out there and quite possibly you will come across another '89 at a decent, fair price.

Good luck shopping !

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 22:10:07

Thanks for the input Larry! We're at $11.5K now and seem to be at a stalemate.

Gary

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 07:29:07

I've got a 89' standard rig swing (actually WING keel)keel w/o trailer and I think I paid too much for it at 10K. I love the boat and would buy it again because it was what I was looking for and close to home, but can't imagine paying much more for an 89'.

Edited by - DaveR on 09/26/2007 07:43:41

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 07:41:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 I've got a 89' standard rig swing keel...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you sure? Your signature says "'89 SR/WK".

Edited by - dlucier on 09/25/2007 07:41:42

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 08:35:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 I've got a 89' standard rig swing keel...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A one-of-a-kind collector's item!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:42:37

I'll give $11.5K for a collector's item!!!

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:44:31

Speed becomes relative in racing when you have a handicap. A handicap is an equalizer and invites you to sail your best race to win, not necessarily have the fastest boat on the coarse. I have done very well in our club races over the years racing against Beneteaus, S2's, Hunters, C&C's, Tartans, etc, all larger than my boat. I was able to place better because, on a given day I was able to outsail them. Conversley, because their handicap is so low, they have to sail their best (fastest) race to beat me.I didn't finish ahead of them, but my handicapped time around the course was better.

So, disregard the speed aspect when considering the three hull shapes. All have their sailing attributes but are relavely close in speed given a number of variables.

By the way, I have an 88 wing TR. I am very partial to it for cruising but would prefer a tall rig fin for racing. I'm not sure I'd even consider a swinger at all. If I were a really die-hard racer, which I'm not, and moey was an issue, I would probably buy a Capri 25 or 26.

Edited by - aeckhart on 09/25/2007 11:48:51

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:10:10

Ahhh, my favorite topic. Defending the swinger.
I raced last year as a novice, in my 81 SR/SK and won the season series, because of my ability to point higher.
I sail on a lake with Dams at both ends, meaning that the levels change quickly and often. The bottom is variable, from sandy to muddy to weedy to rocky. I have experienced that my swing keel has saved my ego, my boat and several beer.

I sail occasionally in salt and primarily in fresh water. I bought a swinger that had been maintained very well. I continue to maintain all the parts meticulously, and am confident that the swing keel will not fail me. I keep the keel down except when it needs to come up for things like, clearing shallow water obstacles and for trailering. I don't motor or moor the boat with the keel up. It is my understanding that complete failure of the swing keel system could sink this boat. I avoid those circumstances, and rely on my maintenance to maintain my confidence.
It is a good lake boat.
I had this boat in salt for one year, often with the keel up for weeks at a time while moored - I did this because it was mentioned on this forum and in old owner's manuals that that was the proper way to leave them. I've also left it moored for months at a time in salt with the keel down.(since debunked by myself, at least) Last spring I replaced a two year old cable and attendant parts with no sign of wear or degradation.
I also understand that it is possible to sink a fin keel if the keel bolts rust and break.(also noted here on this forum about a year and a half ago - when a 36' sailboat out of Vancouver lost it's keel) It is also possible to sink a sailboat if the captain runs into any of the following: sharp rocks, big rocks, other boat, coral, gigantic wave, extremely bad weather.
Last week I was out in 25 knot winds with gusts to 35 knots. My C25 Swinger handled like a champ and we made it down the lake close hauled, with smiles on our faces. We gunkholed in a little cove in which we had to raise the keel - because it was so windy, we wanted to tuck ourselves as far away from the windy entrance to the cove as possible. Around two bends in the cove, behind a picturesque tree studded hill, was a quiet, windless anchorage in about 3 feet of water. We then proceeded to drink a few beer, had a great nights sleep, ate breakfast etc, and eventually sailed out of the cove, lowered the keel and sailed back to our mooring ball.
Be careful, don't be afraid.
Did I mention that I like my boat and that I'm still thrilled that I bought it. I don't care now how much I paid for it. I don't think I will ever sell it.
And another thing...saturday afternoon the Admiral and I spent a couple of hours sanding that wonderful teak on the deck. It was a good day.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 07:42:39

Oops, yes, typo there. It of course is a 89' WING Keel

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 08:09:20

Oooooo... Too bad!

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 05:30:03

Gary - Noticed an '89 has just been listed in the Swap Meet part of this Board. Boat is in Kemah, TX. Not sure how convenient it is but starting price, I believe, is $12K...so maybe something to check out.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 07:55:22

I saw the post about an hour after it was posted. I've already been in contact with the sellor and I'm going to try and look at it during lunch today. It's about 20 minutes from where I work.

Looks promising!

Gary

Edited by - GaryB on 10/02/2007 07:55:55

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 10:56:22

Hmmmmmmmm... Looks good! Enjoy your lunch!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4312 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 19:56:18

The boat looks OK. The owner has been very upfront about the boat and has been much easier to deal with than any of the brokers.

Edited by - on

DrScow
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 22:43:14

c25 #472
i went for the fixed keel for sailing in the north atlantic,gulf of maine. a moveable keel is just one more thing that can fail at a critical time. there were no wing keels available in the area. no need to play the 12 meter yacht keel game here in maine. just fit the keel and sail;
pete f.

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Summers Eve
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 18:20:18

Gary B,

I researched the hell out of this too before I bought my boat. I sail on Eagle Mountain Lake up by Fort Worth. Travis is a great lake with lots of boats so you should be able to find what ever you decide on.

Now to be perfectly clear my 84, fin, tall rig is the only Catalina 25 I have ever sailed. It points to wind great and when I have gone aground I was able to get if off with out assistance except one time. I stuck it in the mud and had to be helped out by a bass boat. That was embarrassing.

What I was told is that fins will point better. When you stick one it usually will come out pretty easily. They draw more water and are not trailerable by normal people.

Wings don’t point as well. They draw less water so you can access places you can’t with a fin. Lake Travis is mostly a rocky shoreline with rapid drop offs from my limited experience there. When you do stick a wing you are stuck. I have been able to hang my considerable mass off a shroud and heal the boat enough to get it out. Except that one time of course. With a wing you would just stick it worse.

Swings are trailerable and are ideal for sailors that love to run aground.

My $0.02.

Steve
1984 Catalina 25 Tall Rig
Eagle Mountain Lake, TX

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2007 : 20:38:59

Hi Steve,

Since my last post on Oct 2nd I bought the '89 SR/WK I mentioned I was looking at. While I really wanted a fixed keel this boat was what I was looking for otherwise. Since it's in Kemah just south of Houston and I live in Southwest Houston I can get to the boat in 45 minutes or go by after work (20 minutes away). I had never really thought about buying a saltwater boat but once I realized it would be a lot more convenient than Travis I decided to give it a try. So far I like it but still miss the beautiful, clear water at Travis. Now I'm thinking of buying a trailer so I can enjoy both worlds plus I could keep the boat in a dry stall out of the weather and avoid a lot of the water infiltration issues (plus it's cheaper than a wet slip).

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah, TX

Edited by - GaryB on 11/02/2007 20:46:59

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