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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Mounting a Midships Cleat

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/13/2007 : 16:27:03

Ok, waiting for the varnish to dry on the v-berth extension/table support strips, and looking at my brand new 6" SS Cleats and how to attach them

Looking carefully at the side of the boat about midships, I don't see how I can mount them by bolting through the bonded topsides/hull joint.

Here's what I'm thinking.. requesting input.

If I take a block of starboard (about 3/4 - 1" thick) about 6" long and shape the underside of it to match the top side of the hull joint. Then I could secure it to the top/hull using 3 SS bolts through the join and a SS strap beneath to spread the load. Then mount the Cleat by bolting it through the starboard.

ie. Bolt the cleat to the starboard, then the starboard to the hull above the rub rail.

The bolts would protrude up inside the joint, inboard of the rub rail lip.

I'm considering going this route:
a) no holes into the cabin (and don't have to worry about getting nuts onto bolts up through the minimal gap between the liner and the hull

b) If the cleat were over strained, then it would probably pull out of the starboard rather then rip the starboard off the hull with potential hull damage.

c) It really seems the simplest solution as the cleat doesn't sit flush anywhere along that edge of the boat so I would have to make a filling block anyway.

What do you think? And could I use starboard as the backing strap too?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 18:22:18

I know you've already bought them, but I really like my track cleat on the jib track. No holes! Adjustable! They work well for docking and spring lines. I really think that's the simplest solution.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 20:12:41

Good point John, however the cleats were from WallysMart and cost less that $10 each!! real stainless (in fact they have been in my florida home garage for about 6 months and still no signs of corrosion (unlike anything else that's metal in humidville.)

I did a search for track mount cleats, found some for $77 each

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 10/13/2007 20:14:46

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 20:29:11

Paul,

Not sure if this is the location you mean, but on my 1999 my shrouds connect through the outer hull joint. What I believe you will find particularly interesting is that underneath they support the bolts using a stainless pipe of about 6 inches. This effectivly distributes the stress. If it's good enough for shrouds I'm guessing that it would be plenty for a cleat.

Sorry that I am not able to provide a better picture since my boat is under wraps right now. The arrow points to where this 6" pipe is. Maybe someone here can take a better picture.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 22:09:20

Thanks Steve, that sounds like great idea. Do you happen to know if the bolts go all the way through the tube or are the nuts internal?

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 22:16:16

I'm with John. Track cleats. They will be well secured with no additional holes and can be moved to accomodate your needs. I'm not sure I would trust the hull edge to hold against a strong horizontal load.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 00:21:04

Paul,
While I'm with John & Randy, track cleats are the way to go (~$40 each at Garhauer, no drilling, adjustable, etc., love mine), it seems doable the way you've got it described. If Steve's chainplates are attached in a similar way, I'd think having a cleat attached at the hull joint should work OK although the pull from a chainplate is mostly in the Z axis, and the cleats are mostly X & Y. My concern would be a lateral pull against the joint where it might be possible to tear out a section of rub rail. Interestingly, we had this [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15786&SearchTerms=garhauer"]same discussion[/url] about the track rail mounted cleats when I was looking for them.

I'd through-bolt the entire affair to eliminate the potential hinge at the starboard and hull joint and I'd make the starboard as thin as possible. Think of the starboard as just a shim instead of a load bearing piece of the system. I realize this is opposite of your plan (if I understood you correctly), but I think you're setting yourself up for failure on a lateral pull (side to side). Longitudinally (fore & aft), I think you'd be OK. However, I know with our midship's cleats, most of our pulls tend to be along the long axis, so you might be OK. I like the idea of the stainless pipe as the backing "plate", that should be a pretty effective load spreading device.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/14/2007 00:22:08

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 07:22:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm not sure I would trust the hull edge to hold against a strong horizontal load.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So far everyone seems in favor of the track cleats. I think both concepts have their pros & cons, here's my take.

Track Cleats

<ul><li>Easy install</li><li>Adjustable fore & aft??</li>
<li>Mounted on a track already handling forward loads (should be ok stearn loads)</li><li>No holes!</li><li>No evidence if removed</li>
<li>Easy to reach (no need to lean over the side)</li></ul><ul><li>Track not designed for lateral stress</li><li>Additional Toe Snubber</li><li>Risk of cabin top damage</li></ul>Side Mount Cleats<ul><li>Lower point of leverage (side loads would tend to have less heal effect)</li><li>Lower Cost ($20 v $80+S&H)</li><li>Leaves track clear for max jib adjustment</li></ul><ul><li>Awkward to reach over the side</li><li>Risk of hull damage</li></ul>

Hmmmm, The jib adjustment is probably only a few inches, most of the cons balance out between the two options.
The cleats were an impulse buy (the price is pretty good), but the idea of leaning over the side to reach the cleat while onboard is not too pleasant. Both would be pretty easy to reach from the dock.

I think the Track mount win. (other big plus not listed .. no work install!!!!!! )

Thanks Guys, keep an eye out for a pair of cleats on ebay!

I'll spring for a pair of Track Cleats.

Paul

ps.
Another indication of the value of this forum. Quick and experienced responses are the norm.
Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 10:53:25

Paul, I just checked out the garhauermarine.com site. Lots of good stuff! I don't know your intended purpose but a less expensive option, if you just need a tie-off point, would be a track car at $23. Their model # is SC-L1. It has a stainless steel body and welded loop.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 18:51:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Thanks Steve, that sounds like great idea. Do you happen to know if the bolts go all the way through the tube or are the nuts internal?

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry for my late response. The bolts go all the way through the pipe, then washer and nut.

I agree that horizontal tugs (continuous tugging on a long period of time) could have the bolts eat away at the fiberglass and loosen. However I wonder how our current cleats are mounted? Maybe adding some epoxy can disable the slight horizontal movement?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2007 : 23:27:51

While track cars cheaper, lots cheaper, I like track cleats for tieing off fenders.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 10:37:19

Paul,
Check the link in my earlier post, there's another link towards the bottom for the Garhauer track cleats. $89 delivered. We use our starboard one every time we come back in to snub us up to the finger pier. Since Saturday, we'll be using the port one all the time while in port to pull the boat away from the dock. Our marina had a big working party on Saturday & one of the things that got installed was a new cleat for our boat just so we can use the port mid-ship's cleat. Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to mount the little bumper wheel thing I bought to keep me from hitting the end of the finger pier when the tide, current & wind are against me...like yesterday. At least we didn't hit anyone or bang the dock, but it was a near thing. Mid-ship's cleat saved the day.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:56:20

britinusa
Start out by using 1-1/2" PVC pipe by 2" long and cut a full length of tube slot such that it will allow the tube to snap on the T-track.
I have made several differnt types and designs etc...in which I use them to hold my fender lines.
Note: You can use other shapes of tubing and materials because that is the fun of it. You can build a winner or a loser depending on your out look. How strong you make it is depended on how you use it,also put a tag on it saying for your use only and not to be used for a gun mount.

You would be surprised how well they hold and you can up with your own ideas depending on the trade off's you will discover.

Patent pending

paulj

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/15/2007 : 23:14:43

Nice Idea those snap on pvc thingies, paul(j)

In order to claim patent, you must give them an inovative name.

How about 'Tubygrips'

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2007 : 08:37:58

On my boat, I have a welded loop car mounted on the jib track that I use for a spring line. This spring line, which stays with my slip, has a SS carabiner attached to the end that makes cleating and uncleating a two second operation.

Another benefit of the welded loop car over the horned cleat is, there is nothing to catch a jib sheet.

Edited by - on

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