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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/12/2007 : 12:11:42

What do you do in regards to trip planning? For a daysail? Weekend? Longer? Night time?

All the experts say to file a float plan with someone but, do you really? What do you include?

What about contingencies? (e.g. motor won't start, Sail blows out, lights don't work, etc., etc.) Do you plan for them or just react (panic

) when they happen?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 13:36:12

John, anytime I go out, I let my wife know cuz she rarely goes out. If in the rare chance she goes out with me, oh well.....
As I belong to Boat US, they are my contingency plan, in part- whether for day sail or week trips to Catalina Island-about 31 miles. I do have a radio and cell and never had to use any yet. I also have a newer 03 boat, so I feel a little more confident nothing will break and sails are in great condition, knock on wood. I would feel a little more apprehensive if I had an older boat but either way never go out if I did not feel fairly certain I would be ok.
But I do keep tools on board as well as dinghy for those longer trips. The motor for the dinghy is new. So overall I feel pretty safe. I do a visual prior to leaving slip and all maintance as required.
Oh two last things: stay calm and reassure your crew if you have one. Finally, practice, practice, practice all those things you think wont go wrong. One day they will.

Edited by - piseas on 11/12/2007 14:34:35

johnsonp
Admiral

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Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 15:14:17

John
The minimum would be....
File a float plan with boat type, number, name and color with someone you can rely on.
When and where you are going and when you plan to get back and yours and their phone numbers.
Review a boat safety list.

Remember the people on board life and safety comes first...the rest you will figure out with experience.

paulj

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 16:09:40

I guess I wasn't terribly clear. I was wondering what people actually do. When I go out, I know an alternative location if I can't get back to my marina, for example. I have the phone numbers for the tow service readily availble. My wife knows when I'm going out and when I expect to return. I make sure the radio works, etc, etc.

The thread that got me wondering this had a number of people concerned about tides, currents, barges, etc., preventing, or, at least making difficult, their return to their respective slips. I was wondering if anyone has actually planned in advance for those (and other) issues or simply hoped they would never happen. If so, what are some of the innovative ways folks expect to overcome the problems?

We know what the minimums are, I wonder what the reality is.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 16:37:24

I always bring extra cloths (no matter how short the trip or how hot the weather) and extra food like energy bars and water. It suprises me how many boaters make sure they have enough beer on board to last a week but no drinking water. Also I have a flash light with a red and green lens and a couple of other lanterns that can be used as running lights and a fresh pack of extra batteries on board. Spark plugs and extra lines of various diameters for lashing broken things togetherare a good idea too and for a weekend trip extra gas in a spare tank is a must. it's also a good idea to practice sailing back to your dock a couple of times a year incase you ever have to do it in an emergency. You don't necessarily have to make a perfect docking under sail but just get close enough to get a line or boat hook on a piling. Oh yeah,another thing to remember if you ever have to sail in is that a bucket tied to a line and secured to a stern cleat (bridled around both stern cleats) can slow you down very quickly when you throw it overboard.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 19:07:23

For us, we go through a number of lists for a trip, and not just specifically for the boat. Not sure you'd exactly call this trip planning so much as preparation.

For the boat:
Paper charts for where we're going, and electronic charts for the GPS.
Tide tables. Paper versions and GPS.
Calculator, rule & dividers. Small waterproof notebook & pencil.
Spend some time identifying nasty things you wouldn't want to hit and putting them into the GPS with avoidance radii. Do some route planning as well if you're going someplace new.
Full tank of gas, plus an extra tank if we're going overnight or any distance.
Handheld VHF
Backup GPS
Check inflatable PFD's for proper operation (basically can I see the green band or window on each of them). Check operation of strobes & whistles attached to PFD's.
Check tie off point for Lifesling.
Tell someone where we're going & when we should be back. This is usually my friend in the marina next to us. We don't file a float plan with anyone, although I've put together a template to do so in the future. I plan to use my oldest brother for the contact person if he's willing although my friend would maybe be a better choice simply because he's a sailor as well, and local.

For the galley & interior:
Fresh water, we try to bring about a gallon a day for drinking water for us & the hound.
Fill up the internal water tank if it's not already (currently drained due to colder weather).
Fill up the porta potti's flush water tank if it's not already. Currently drained due to colder weather.
Dog & people food, more than enough in case of emergency or feeling like staying somewhere longer. We make a cursory run at a menu, but we rarely get beyond "let's BBQ something", then go shopping to figure out what that something is. We keep breakfast bars, tea, coffee & hot chocolate as well as snacks on the boat all the time so at least we can get something warm & somewhat filling into us.
At least two propane bottles, one to cook with and another to heat the cabin with if necessary. We usually have 3-4 on board in the fuel locker.

Contingencies:
Light: We have lots of flashlights, LED lights, etc. I'm sort of nutty about flashlights, always buying ones that catch my fancy. We're unlikely to run out.

Heat: This is a concern in the PNW. We have a large propane heater as well as a 12 volt blanket which is untried on the boat. We have spare clothes, all fleece and or Goretex, no cotton is allowed on the boat unless you wear it on. Bedding is all fleece as well and we keep Rita's good sleeping bag on the boat, she's much smaller than I am and more prone to hypothermia. If it starts to get nasty, we both have good foulies to wear even though Rita thinks hers makes her look like a fireman.

Sails: We have a whole v-berth storage compartment full of them from a 70 to a spinnaker. Plus I've got needle & thread to repair a blown out sail, as well as good tape for a quick repair if necessary. I used to have a sail palm, but haven't seen it for years, I suspect my dad might have commandeered it some time ago and it got lost in the shuffle when he died. The only sail I don't have a spare for is the main, but our boats sail just fine in a pinch with just a 110 up.

Emergencies: Ditch kit (bright red gym bag basically) with:
Flares plus a separate flare gun kit, signal mirrors (2), extra CO2 cartridges for our PFD's, whistles (2), handheld VHF goes into this, as does extra GPS. Emergency navigation card (not likely to need it, but I've got that plus a plastic sextant & star finder in there too, makes me feel better).
First aid kit goes right next to ditch bag, both go under the cabin ladder next to tool kit. The first aid kit is fairly comprehensive and would make a post just by itself. I hope to be able to grab all three on my way to stepping up into our dinghy.
We recently purchased a new VHF with DSC & remote microphone, but haven't installed it yet. Once this is interfaced with the GPS, we'll be able to broadcast our position if we get into trouble. Besides our old VHF sucks.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 20:48:07

John
Give us a chance......set up a hypothetical problem where you sail.

paulj

Edited by - johnsonp on 11/14/2007 15:04:28

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 21:57:34

Paul, with that forecast, I'll leave my boat on the hard and wait for April

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 00:05:19

My wife or someone always knows where I am going and when to expect me back. I have 2 VHF radios and a cell phone. I always call when I return to the dock, even from a daysail. She knows the number of the USCG and the particulars on the boat. I am a member of Vessel Assist (towing service). I always carry enough fuel to motor back from wherever I am going. I always carry enough water for several days and have food and snacks to last a few days in an emergency (there is always beef jerky, and a few cans of stew on board somewhere). I always have batteries for the GPS and oil for the oil lamp, tools, and 2 anchors + chain and rode.

When I am going to be far offshore or in another Country, I let her know I'll be out of touch for a few days and when to start worrying if she doesn't hear from me. I've been totally out of touch for up to a week on some cruises. Keep in mind I usually sail solo.

I carry all requiured USCG safety equipment, plus more. One thing I learned in my Captains class - there is a HUGE difference between the SOLAS flares and the ones they let you get by with. Invest in the SOLAS. I also have personal strobe lights on my harness.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 06:46:38

This is a great thread! I thought we were pretty well prepared but Jim & David's lists point out some weaknesses.

We do file a sail plan! I use the online template from the USCG and it is stuck to the fridge (our daughter minds the house and pouch for us while we're away.

I do have one advantage over the rest of you though. Peggy is an honorary member of OSHA (they just don't know it) So we anticipate bad weather very early and dump the sails at 20knots.

We always wear our life jackets (WM Auto inflate/manual) and I always check we have plenty of fuel in the can prior to heading in the channels that link most of the marinas down here to the deeper water.

With the intent of making the Admiral more confident each trip, I sit down and go over the itinerary and the short term sail plan.
eg. This weekend we were at Boca Chita Key in Biscayne bay. I had Peggy recognize the wind direction and confirm the weather on the VHF.
Then with a sail rule and chart, we laid out the expected wind conditions for the day and our planned course. We cover the points of sail for each leg of the journey, estimated time of arrival at various points. We discussed the procedure we would follow if the weather turned downhill(dump sails, motor to safe location).

It has become my goal to get Peggy more comfortable on-board (she is anxious to say the least) so making a decision about when to dump the sails as the wind climbs removes the decision when the time arrives. ie. Oh, wind just hit 20 and has been climbing, dump sails! (A bit like making the decision to stop at amber lights when driving - make the decision before getting in the truck!)

The boat is living up to it's name!

paul

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 07:50:25

I only file a written float plan with someone if I'm taking an extended trip to unfamiliar waters, or waters that are more isolated. I have both a fixed VHF and a handheld VHF radio, and a cellphone, and unlimited towing insurance. When I'm cruising 30-40 miles up or down the Chesapeake Bay, I can get help, if necessary, by using one of the radios or the cellphone, and there's usually some traffic on the Bay that you can attract with a flare, in the unusual event that those devices all fail. That having been said, I always tell my marina manager, verbally, when I'm leaving for a few days, and where I'm going, and when I expect to be back.

I think a written float plan should especially be filed if you go out into the ocean, not just to pop out an inlet in fair weather and sail around the area for awhile before you return, but, to actually cruise the coast, from one inlet to the next.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 10:51:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I guess I wasn't terribly clear. I was wondering what people actually do...We know what the minimums are, I wonder what the reality is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The vast majority of my sailing is of the day trip variety, so most of my contingency planning is based on that. I do carry everything required like flares, PFD's, fire extinguishers,..etc as well as things like a first aid kit, GPS, charts, flashlights, binoculars, horns, VHF, among other things. I also carry repair items, tools, sprare parts, blocks, line, shackles, ...etc. I also carry water and snack items. My microwave is usually filled with granola bars.

Now, when I go sailing, my wife usually knows when I'm leaving, but my return is anyone's guess. It could be two hours or it could be twelve. I usually call her before I get out of cell range to let her know where I'm at and that I'll be out of range so don't worry if I don't answer the cell. When I'm back in cell range, I'll call her to let her know.

The direction I sail out in open water depends on the winds for that day. I generally like to close reach out and back which could put me on the same tack anywhere from 5 to 30 miles depending on my mood. Even though the prevailing winds for my area blow like clockwork, I generally don't sail past my fuel tank's range just in case on that rare occasion I lose the wind or if I encounter a problem. On days when its rather iffy weatherwise, I'll try to stay within 5 miles of the marina in case the weather turns even more south.

The only actual issue I've encountered, besides the occasional grounding, is an outboard failure which has happened to me about a half dozen times since '95, when I started sailing. With the knowledge that operating without an outboard is inevitable, I practice coming into the slip sans motor so when that day does come, and it will, I'm confident I can bring it home safely (wind gods willing, of course). As a matter of fact, just last season, I launched from the boatyard where I store for the winter with the outboard working fine, but a few hours later when I arrived at my marina where I slip, I had issues with the outboard that required coming in under sail. Quite an interesting way for my inaugural sail of the season, but it was a non issue because I've prepared for it so it just became another training session.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 12:08:49

This is one of my favorite topics. This is one of the main reasons I sail. Sailing is an opportunity to be prepared. I like to think of contingency plans, I like to be prepared.
I won't bore you with the details, because I could go on forever. When I get in my truck or car for an out of town trip, I am loaded to the max. The admiral gets a kick out of this, but she is also confident that if we run into a problem, I'm ready for just about anything.
We sail on a small lake, so that means we always tow our Zodiac and we always have at least one cel phone. Worst case scenario this past season, was the prospect of having to walk three hours back to the parking lot, or having to row the Zodiac for help.
If you were to come onto my boat, you would notice, perhaps, several things. My boat rides low, because of all the stuff I carry. I have safety gear at the ready, we wear our lifejackets, and everything is simple or simplified.
We overnight almost every weekend from May through October, and I think we are the only boat on the lake that displays a mooring light.
The one I use is an 360 degree LED lantern. It runs on rechargable AA batteries and will run continuously for 80 hours. I run it up the mast on the jib halyard.
I've got two large (very heavy) 12 volt house batteries, a 1 million candle power spotlight, rope lights and an assorment of LED stick-on lights in the cabin. Some of our friends kid us about how bright our boat is at anchorage.
On the ocean, (so far) we sail out of a Navy marina, we leave a sail plan with watch personnel, or with our daughter.(Navy Diver)

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 16:00:23

) when they happen? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Very good advice on the planning (which I am reading with interest) maybe I can help with the other part

. Check out [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16158"]my trip to New Bern[/url], especially the 9/14 posting.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 17:50:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 we always tow our Zodiac <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Mike, just wondering, do you tow inflatable with the motor on transom or something else?
Steve

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 17:59:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The admiral gets a kick out of this, but she is also confident that if we run into a problem, I'm ready for just about anything.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mike,
I'm with you, Rita finds it amusing that I have a little bit of everything too, but she doesn't worry too much about us being caught out without what we need. She also teases me mercilessly about it as well, but I don't like not being prepared. Need to pull the cork on that bottle of wine? I've got at least two tools that'll do the job, not including the corkscrew we've got. Need some light on the subject? How many million candle power would you like? Need to cut some line? Would you prefer a serrated or straight blade? Need a bandaid for that cut? Would you prefer non latex, regular, finger tip, stretchy, or cute little animals? Need stitches? Do you want topical anesthesia or booze? Need to cut some firewood? Would you rather use an ax or a saw? Need to contact someone? Do you want to use one of our two cell phones, or one of the two VHF radios, or one of the two FRS radios, or soon, DSC? You get my drift...

I've even got an EPIRB, but no batteries for it...yet.

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, no, I never was a boy scout.

Not to whine, but can an admin fix the link in this thread so we don't have to scroll back & forth to read it?

Edited by - delliottg on 11/13/2007 18:25:04

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 19:25:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">do you tow inflatable with the motor on transom <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't have an OB for my Zodiac. 2 oars and a stubborn streak.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 19:52:39

paulj, if you edit your link and make it like this (url="theurlgoeshere")click here(/url) then it won't screw up the page width.
Replace the () with square braces.

paul

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 20:25:17

John -

Are you on Lake Erie, an ocean, a sea, an inland lake?

Lake Erie you are in Cell Service just about everywhere. If you are doing something outside the ordinary, for example a multi day trip I'd let someone on land know your rough itenirary. Make sure to check in with them - but give yourself a loose timeframe so you don't have to keep a tight schedule.

Ocean/Sea - onshore most areas you are going to have cell coverage...Offshore - when you get in that situation, you will be dealing with a different boat.
Inland Lake - tell somebody you went sailing

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 21:21:14

What I've learned is every skipper should develop his/her own reusable list of things to have on board for a trip--safety items, provisions, clothing, and everything else. Whatever you forget, it'll be much more inconvenient (at best) than if you'd forgotten it on a car trip.

I second Duane on the loose schedule, augmented by periodic cell phone check-ins. Let the weather dictate your schedule by leaving at least 50% slack in your plans.

Next, if necessary, be sure to work on helping your First Mate to understand the basics of skippering the boat--starting and stopping the engine, luffing up, furling as well as hoisting (or unfurling) the sails, maybe heaving to, deploying the anchor, handling the radio and making distress or pan-pan calls, etc... I'm making up a radio cheat-sheet that I'll laminate for my First Mate--types of calls, channels, DSC, what to say, etc... Knowledge (and a little experience) is comfort.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/13/2007 21:25:06

britinusa
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Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 05:53:40

Good points Dave. I'm hoping that the two of us can complete the local safe boaters course (Peggy's schedule makes it tough as she normally works till 8:30pm and is then in no mood to 'studdy'.

One of the things I picked up from Henk's trip report was about the effect that a timetable puts on the trip. This weekend, my son called while we were on the bay (pretty much in the middle) with the idea that we could go pick him up at a marina in order that he join us for the day. Our plans were pretty relaxed and we could have taken the 2hrs trip to homestead bayfront marina to pick him up. However that would have taken our 'relaxed, no time table sail into a completely different scenario. So we declined although I would have enjoyed having my son on board as he rarely gets the chance.
The point was it takes us off our relaxed schedule onto his 'gotta be outta here on time' schedule and that just changes the entire lattitude.

Perhaps on our next trip (not till 08) we'll get him to flex his time. He's a great guy and loves sailing.

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 08:32:52

Here's a good story from one of our members about what can go wrong on a trip...It's a good one. Thanks Dennis!

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12742"]Here is the whole story[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 09:15:54

Oh--and make sure your First Mate (or Admiral) knows how to use that GPS (and chart)...
- to recognize where you are
- to understand what's around you (navaids, rocks, etc.)
- to be able to report a lat-lon position in a distress call

My new mate professes to be totally electronically challenged--this is gonna be the hard part. (She has worked the foredeck on a Herreshoff NY-30 in races off Newport--I can't say the same...

)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 09:18:44

PS: Could somebody (admin?) fix that URL so we can read this thread?

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 14:37:15

Sorry did not know you were off your medication.....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 14:44:25

Whew! That feels better!

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