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Stove mod question

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/22/2007 : 00:24:44

Has anyone removed the propane tank from the starboard lazerette to gain more storage space and connected the Princess to a smaller undercounter tank? If so, how did you do it? Thanks.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2007 : 09:30:06

I removed my tank from the locker. I filled all the holes with MarineTex. Then I removed the stove. I enlared the stove opening and inserted an alcohol stove. It heats slower, but I feel is much safer.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2007 : 11:47:25

Frank, Arlyn has written this up. People use the small Coleman cannisters hooked up the their stoves, usually in the space under the sink. You can buy a fitting for that to put on the hose. Trouble is that then the cannister is INSIDE the cabin - not good in my opinion. You'd need to attach and detach it every use to be safe and then store the cannister outside in the cockpit. I saw a post where someone had run the stove tubing to the coaming box and placed the small Coleman cannister there when they needed it.

If you do away with your use of the Seaward lazarette system, and if your gas tank has the overflow protection system, I will buy the tank from you.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 12/22/2007 11:47:57

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2007 : 19:24:44

Randy, I just e-mailed Arlyn, asking him to describe specifically how he converted his stove to the little green bottles, which I use for my exterior grass grill. If I can convert successfully, the propane tank's yours; just pay for shipping after I empty it.
I assume you have to bypass the electric starter mechanism and light the stove manually.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2007 : 13:28:53

Re my stove post: why can't I/we just remove the large propane tank from the lazerette and adapt the fitting for one of the small green propane bottles? All I want to do is downsize the supply tank, thereby providing more room in the lazerette? Please advise, thanks.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2007 : 14:33:04

Frank,
You almost certainly can do this with off the shelf connections. Coleman makes lots of converters, I know I've got one to go in the other direction (from 20lb to 1lb), almost certainly they sell one that goes in the other direction. I think I got mine at the local Target, but it might have been HD or Lowes. A quick search online turned up [url="http://www.campingworld.com/browse/products/index.cfm/Outdoor-and-RV-Accessories/RV-Maintenance/RV-Propane/Stay-Flow-Adapter-Hoses/prodID=3759"]this[/url]. I think it might do the trick for you.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2007 : 17:26:47

The propane fuel line from the stove enters the lazerette from the rear. The hose is about 8 inches long to the fuel box container connection. Can I disconnect it at this point and with an adaptor such as the Mr. Heater Disposable Bottle Adaptor, simply screw on a one pound "greenie", bypassing the electric start gizmo, and light the stove manually?

Edited by - AADIVER on 12/23/2007 18:01:22

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4303 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2007 : 18:42:38

Frank,

One thing to keep in mind is that the bottle must remain upright or at least close to upright so that you don't inject liquid propane into the stove. It has to be in gas form.

Gary
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2007 : 21:17:39

Dan, when the 10 lb bottle and its container are removed, the electrical connection/solenoid goes with it. It's wired to a switch aft of the galley and to an auxillary switch in the panel. Activating those switches turns on the electric ignition. This system has a safety factor: if the flame on the stove blows out, the solenoid turns off the flow of gas. A one pound "greenie" in the cockpit locker connected just to the gas line wouldn't have that. The gas would continue flowing if the stove burner blew out.
Hey, bottom line: how best to power the Princess from just a one pound Coleman in the cockpit locker and 86 the 10 pound Seaward system?

Edited by - AADIVER on 12/24/2007 00:21:03

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 08:22:12

My "problem" has nothing to do with filling the 10 lb propane bottle. I don't want to fill it, I want to remove it and its container and replace with a small green 1 lb Coleman cannister to allow more storage room in the locker. The solenoid wiring is attached to the inside of the bottle container. This is an '01 250 situation and doesn't relate to your boat.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 09:29:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FARMHAND
 The solenoid wiring is attached to the inside of the bottle container.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Exactly. It's wired to a thermocouple that, as mentioned above, shuts off the gas if the flame blows out. BTW, if you hook up an LP cannister inside the cabin and the Coast Guard finds it, you'll have an issue with them.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 10:49:27

"So, Frank, you cannot replace the 10 lb bottle with a 1 lb bottle becasue you don't understand how the system works well enough to perform this mod safely."

If I hire a "pro" like yourself, is it possible to do it? Who or what should I employ locally, (Long Beach, CA), to fuel the stove with a smaller gas container and give me more room in the locker? How many more posts is it going to take to get a straight answer to a simple question? Yes, I don't fully understand the system, and, no, I would never do it myself.
Arlyn, where are you when I need you?!

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 12:01:42

Frank, the difficult thing is that Arlyn never had the locker setup with solenoid, etc that we have on our newer boats. That makes the issue more complex. In my local Yellow Pages there is a category called "Gas - Propane" that lists companies who could probably do the work.

The problem is that you are proposing to remove a system that was designed to meet AYBC safety standards, not just with the solenoid but also special venting. You may find that contractors wont do the work.

I have gone through the same thinking you have, exacerbated by my tank that needs replacement because it does not have the OPD valve. I have decided to keep the setup as was delivered by Catalina, and invest in a new tank with the OPD valve. In the long run I feel it is safer and will maintain the boats value.

We each have to make our own decisions. In my case I will forego the added locker space. If you decide to proceed I think finding a contractor in the Yellow Pages is the way to go. In a large metro area like yours there may be propane contractors who specialize in marine systems.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 12/24/2007 12:03:44

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 12:05:29

Randy, I think the best answer to my query is: don't do it, leave it the way Catalina and God intended and to hell with adding more storage space. End of issue ;-)

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 12:22:58

Frank: You could ask a marina service manager about a professional installer of marine LP systems.

Another considration: The regulator on Coleman stoves is specific to Coleman gas cannisters. The regulator on your system may not be correct, and may need to be replaced.

...and I don't think you're going to be able to "ship" that propane tank to somebody unless you withhold the truth from the shipper (when you sign the bill that says it's not flammable).

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 12:35:46

Dan: read my last and final post re the stove and tank: SUBJECT CLOSED, END OF ISSUE!!

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2007 : 13:06:21

It has been hectic here with a health issue for my wifes daughter in law... who gets the joy of spending the last two months if it goes that long of her pregnancy in the hospital... including of course Christmas. We've had their three kids a lot of the time recently.

First... my mods were done to deal with the rinky dink original equipment in an early year model... not the redesigned system provided beginning '97.

The original stove does in fact have a safety cut off (heat intercouple)if the flame blows out. I'm guessing that Frank's does as well. I don't think the solenoid at the tank is the primary shut down if the flame blows out.

I am not recommending anything to another, but I do feel it safe to use the coleman cannisters in conjunction with a short pigtail and appropriate quick couplers to fuel the stove as long as the containers are not stored within the boat but rather brought in only as long as the stove is in use. I found that to be of no significant effort and I had no problem remembering to remove the cannister after finishing with use of the stove.

The igniter works as normal and the shut off with flame out works normal. To make the system work with the original stove, the coupler to the cannister must have a very very small hole to simulate a regulation. A valve coupler to the cans would be unsafe if it didn't have a very small hole.

Do not expect anyone to recommend or install a system that is not approved... no one would invite such liability. This is quickly discovered when trying to get a non opv valve system recharged.

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