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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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How much is too much to pay for pics of your boat?

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/28/2008 : 08:17:19

OK, I revisited these photos in a post the other day regarding vhf radio practices. I forgot that this guy hailed us and took a zillion photos of us flying at 9.5 to 10.5 knots! Yes, Lysistrata can fly!

see pics at http://sims.myphotos.cc/~wave16/2007cruise/10_13_07/index24.htm - http://sims.myphotos.cc/~wave16/2007cruise/10_13_07/index25.htm - http://sims.myphotos.cc/~wave16/2007cruise/10_13_07/index26.htm

Anyhow, he want $800 for the whole shoot! $650 for a single image.

Has anyone purchased a pic from a pro?

Sten
DPO Zephyr - C25 FK SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine FL til we go south

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 08:28:40

It's whatever they can get. His pricing of $650 for one and $800 for dozens tells you a little something about their true market value.

We recently had our daughter's "Senior pictures" taken. We paid $100 for the shooting session then about $350 for 2 8x10's and 25 wallets. Theft as far as I'm concerned. Their trick was to collect $250 when we picked up the proofs. My wife thought it to be a deposit to insure they were returned. Instead, it was a non-refundable down payment against future purchases. Took the same kid to Target for Christmas pictures. Got comparable quality photos for hundreds of dollars less.

Caveat Emptor!

One more thing. With the capabilities of digital photo equipment, ou'd be better off buying a high quality camera and asking cruising buddy to shoot some pics. You'll have high quality pics and the camera to boot.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/28/2008 08:30:14

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 08:29:55

I got buzzed by a BoatPix helicopter once, but I didn't follow up.

With the photos that were taken of your boat, I'd simply save the files to your computer then Photoshop the logo from them.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 09:00:15

Good idea Don except that as a current sometimes and former publishing professional I know that these images could never appear on our website www.svlysistrata.com without paying for them.

Sten

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 10:01:07

Vanity, Vanity, All Is Vanity

...and he is counting on that. Disappoint him. In my view digital photography has killed professional photography. Every sailing site has incredible photos now. I even have some good shots on my pages shot one handed with a 5 mp from a chase boat. It is always nice to have a photo of you in your boat, it is even better when a friend takes it and gives it to you. Wait for the shots from your friends.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 01/28/2008 10:01:51

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 10:04:26

I usually carry a camera with me and if I see a boat I somewhat recognize, I'll snap a bunch of pictures. Most times, I don't even know the person who owns the boat. After burning the pics to CD, I toss them and a few printed pic's into their respective cockpits (if I can find the boat) or I'll drop them off in the marina office. I do this rather anonymously (that random act of kindness thing) but every once in a while someone will discover it was me and seek me out to thank me personnally or sometimes I'll find a nice thank you note tucked in my coaming pocket.

I started doing this after someone I barely knew put some pictures of my boat in my cockpit.

Here's one of them...

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:28:26

Sten, I'll take a photo of your boat for $500.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:36:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 In my view digital photography has killed professional photography.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Depends, we have place we use for baby/kid pictures and they are great. for example they are the only ones that took smiling pictures of my son, including my 10,000 tries and the ones that come to daycare and count on people's inability to say no. I wouldn't trade them for anything, plus they are reasonable. Way more reasonable than $650?

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 11:37:01

Quote: "Sten, I'll take a photo of your boat for $500."

Better have a fast chase boat then Randy!

That's part of it, some of these are really good - I'm just a bit out of pocket to buy them for that much!

sten

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:38:34

Realizing I'm opening myself for charges about NY'ers and lawyers...I ask the question about right to privacy? Sten, unless you are a celebrity or notable person (forgive me if you are and I don't know) then I say sue the guy for privacy violation if you didn't sign a waiver. He's clearly using your image and your boat's for financial gain, without any compensation to you!!!

Edited by - jerlim on 01/28/2008 12:39:41

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 12:56:12

Sten: Next time you come through Watch Hill Passage and Fisher's Island Sound, let me know--I have a 6MP Cannon and I'm pretty sure I can keep up with you!

Don: Google's Picassa photo editor has a simple tool for un-tipping that lake.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/28/2008 13:02:54

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 13:41:12

Pics from the air are always expensive.
We almost ordered one for what I recall was 85 bucks for an 8x10 during Cleveland Race week.

He had 300+ boats in one flight though so I'm sure the cost is reduced a bit.

But even then, his most expensive was $355 for a 16x20.

I'd say the price you are looking at is way high. You'd be better off entering a regatta where you know they will be flying over and buying a picture. You'd get the races, the parties and the helicopter for less than that guy wants.

you can check it out here (click on Sports/Event Photos...then select Cleveland Race Week, then the Saturday Aerials tab) I'm boat _DSF2832

From there you should be able to pic out others of my boat. If you look in the same group on Saturday around page 3 for this picture _DSF2869

You'll see the National Champ and the runner up duking it out

http://www.prlphotographics.com/index.html

If you hunt around you can probably find the price list too.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 15:16:54

After I posted this morningand was driving down the highway, I thought similar thoughts to Jerry's. You "own" the rights to your image. I imagine that you could say that you "own" the rights to the image of your boat. (C&C might argue their proprietary rights here) Send him a bill for $800 for using your personal property and allow him to exchange that debt for the complete collection of photos. Unless you specifically signed a "model release" or somesuch, he owes you.

Yeah, right!

Maybe Milby could draft the right kind of letter.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 17:14:21

We have a guy who we hire to come out and take pics at our club's big regattas. His price is about $15 for a CD of the whole weekend. He's got good equipment and takes very good pics. I drove him around one weekend.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 21:10:54

Here's an idea. Put someone in the digny with a digital camera and make a few passes. FREE.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 21:23:49

anybody that owns a sailboat, especially a C&C39, must be rich. Cut a check, spend another $800 on a frame, and you're set.

BTW: we won one of 12 places in the annual calendar
contest at our sailing club. The winning picture was taken from our cockpit - there were 3 other sailboats ahead of us lined up nicely so we took a picture and ended up with a professional quality photo - We used a Canon Digital camera that we paid $199 for. We had the picture printed and mounted at Costco for another $20. Looks like a professional picture. We made copies for the owners of the other boats in the picture - cost another $20 and was well worth the friendships.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 21:26:40

To put it in perspective I could buy a roller furler for my C25 and have money left over. How many times are you really going to look at the pictures, once or twice a year?

I'd rather get a friend or cruising buddy to take some pictures of my boat in a spot with a beautiful background and spend the money on some new toy for the boat.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2008 : 21:59:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 After I posted this morningand was driving down the highway, I thought similar thoughts to Jerry's. You "own" the rights to your image. I imagine that you could say that you "own" the rights to the image of your boat. (C&C might argue their proprietary rights here) Send him a bill for $800 for using your personal property and allow him to exchange that debt for the complete collection of photos. Unless you specifically signed a "model release" or somesuch, he owes you.

Yeah, right!

Maybe Milby could draft the right kind of letter.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The photographer owns the rights to the Image. Even if the lines of the boat are trademarked see Rock Hall of Fame vs Gentile, US District Court for precendent. If you are engaged in a public activity on public waters you are pretty much fair game - especially when you can't make out who you are. That first amendment thing is a tough one to beat.

I just reread the original post after seeing the pictures, I must have read it too quickly. I read flying and immediately assumed that the guy snapping the pics was in a chopper.(couldn't get to the pics at the time) If that guy wants 650 for a single print, tell him you aren't funding his drug habit but would be glad to sample some of what he is using.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 09:13:40

Quote: anybody that owns a sailboat, especially a C&C39, must be rich. Cut a check, spend another $800 on a frame, and you're set.

Not exactly - remember I owned a C25

not what a lot of newbies are buying today. (I have met folks who bought 35-44 footers as a FIRST boat). Must be nice. No, we decided that life was too short to stay on the treadmill forever and we decided to sell all of our crap, keep a few things, keep a little graphic design/publishing and US Pavilion organization at foreign trade shows thing going while cruising and live cheaply. (Wanna see real cheap? http://www.chelonidae.blogspot.com/ wackadoo but very cool ) We are hemorrhaging a bit at the moment because we are at a dock for $600 a month - we usually anchor - and I have to fly home to see my doctor - love health care in this country

Our needs are probably running at around 24-28k a year at the moment, but we really need to watch it. But perceptions aside, (and I did read thru the sarcasm there) I love some of the shots and I will probably negotiate something. I did find out that I can get prints for $50, but I really want a large electronic file.

Professionally - I do pay for stock photos in that price range for clients projects and apparently this guy sells stuff to magazines, so who knows we might get a cover out of it! We'll see. Dave I'll see you in the spring when we come back north, although pending good weather we might do cape may to Block on the outside.

We've tried the dinghy thing - you wind up ruining the shot because you are trying to aim towards the photographer and not focus on pushing the envelope and making a nice wake, etc... The beauty of some of these shots is that when he hailed us and we knew what he was doing, he mighta egged us on a bit too

we trimmed like we were racing and decided to give him a show. He had a great stable chase boat and we were as mentioned flying - again 10 and a half knots in 24 knots of wind is good stuff.

Final thought - so the consensus is, no one ever purchased one and the price is too much. Good to know that I am in good company here!

Lysistrata OUT!

Sten
1973 - Older, wiser, cheaper and most importantly seaworthy - C&C 39 SV Lysistrata

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 09:30:55

Better to go broke doing something you love than to live your life wondering what might have been.
When you end up in the old folks home, that picture on your wall might be priceless to you.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 09:37:40

That and my porn collection!

some guy

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 11:50:27

Sten: If you pass by outside, I can buzz over to Great Salt Pond... Have you been to Mystic, Stonington, and/or Watch Hill? Just turn to port at Montauk, drop the hook, and I'll take you on a tour.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 12:37:49

Dave:

Yes, yes & yes. Rode out Ernesto on our C25 in Montauk. Can't go in there now really. 6'6" DRAFT... But yes, watch this space. We are heading north in March and April and should be around there in April/May. Will stop in NC unless I can convince wife otherwise, so we may come up LI Sound whether I want to or not. Who knows? schedules in this world are a bad thing and we never know nor even try to predict.

Sten

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 12:41:36

I meant stop in NYC...

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2008 : 19:54:38

I took a deeper look at the website and retract my smoking substances comment. Andrew Sims is a fairly well known regatta photographer who does the circuit up the Right Coast until mid to late summer when he breaks off for national and world events.

Sten - were you looking to actually buy the jpeg or buy a picture. According to his website you can get a 8x12 for 100 bucks. 650 for the image is not at all unreasonable. When you consider what it would cost you in time and effort to get someone with a 10 megapixel camera, and a boat, and you and your boat all in one place to snap the pic, then pick up the 2 beers apiece and the burgers.

I know of at least 2 people who have purchased pics from him in the past - First guy sitting on the rail on the boat in the lead is me. significance here is that is probably the only time at key west in 04 where you'll see us leading the Evelyn's anywhere - and that was about 10 seconds to the gun

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2008 : 08:58:29

Thanks D. Wolff - I got the impression he was good and my preliminary search was not good enough. This guy has quite a few credits and some amazing work.... Hmmmm... How about those embarrassing moments shots? http://www.wavelengthstudios.com/photo/stock/racing/emb_web/index.htm

Sten

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