Association Forum - 3:1 vs 4:1 mainsheet

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

3:1 vs 4:1 mainsheet - pics added 2/7/08

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/31/2008 : 23:05:33

Frank and Larry,
Starting a new thread so I don't detract from the main subject on the other one.
I've seen both 3 and 4:1 set-ups for C-25's. Almost all of the C-22's I've seen have 3:1 mainsheet systems. Before you change out your 4:1 block, you might try this, which I do on our C-22: To reduce the amount of mainsheet you have to pull in with each tack, tie a small line, say 1/4" or 5/16" to the end of your boom and then the block from the boom to that line. The line should be just long enough that the the boom block is about 3" away from the traveler block when you are sheeted all the way in. You will save 3 or 4 times the length of that line each time you tack.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/07/2008 20:12:48

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 05:25:41

I see what you are getting at with shortening the length between the blocks but if you only add a 3" line onto each end...then I guess you will save 3" X 3 lines = 9" on each end adjacent to the blocks...so then total of 18" ...shorter lines ? Do I have that right ? Doesn't seem like all that much gain and adding additional connections/knots to the system.

I guess I am a little surprised that Frank's '89 and my '89 are not outfitted with the same ratio. Seems his is a 4:1 and mine is a 3:1. Maybe they left it to the dealer to outfit some or all of the running gear ? I believe my blocks are made by Ronstan. But I believe the turning blocks mounted to the boom are also Ronstan as are some of the other gear on my boat. So...curious what others with same vintage catalina were outfitted with originally ?

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/01/2008 05:26:00

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 05:28:02

Hey ! I see I just bridged over to becoming a Master Marine Consultant !!! Guess my responses now carry the voice of authority now !!!

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/01/2008 05:28:23

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 05:29:59

I had the factory 4:1 and found it to be inadequate in a blow and to much to tackle (pun intended) when dead. We installed a 6:1 that would have worked on a high performace 32 (web specials at defender are great)in heavy air we went full on, no wind we were "un-lacing" back down to a 3:1.

Larry - Originally, our 78 was Schaeffer and Garhauer.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 08:22:57

David, thanks for the idea. it is probably a good 4 feet between the traveler and the end of the boom, that would multiply to a lot of line. I am also after quicker trimming so I may still go 3:1 and use your idea.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 12:16:33

What about the load factor? you are now putting all the load in one spot instead of dispersing it over 3 or 4 lines?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 12:35:48

Dyneema

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 13:52:58

Larry, I'm talking tying a 3-4 feet small line to the boom and connecting the boom end block to that line. Then, when you are close hauled, that block will be almost touching the block on the traveler. Should save hauling in up to 9-12 feet of line. Doesn't require replacing your current blocks. Try it before you buy a new block!
Load factor: Hasn't been a problem on our C-22, using 1/4" line. You could use 5/16 or even 3/8 for the extra load on the C-25. System is used by a former C-22 national champion - got to race with him once as crew and got the idea from him.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 15:10:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 What about the load factor? you are now putting all the load in one spot instead of dispersing it over 3 or 4 lines?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You only have one line for your genoa sheet (for a bigger sail). The multiple parts are about mechanical advantage--not load-sharing. This is a cool way of reducing the length that has to be hauled in!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 15:35:59

You could also nearly hoist a C-25 with some 5/16 lines.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 17:06:36

One thing that you will discover is that your traveler block will tend to flop around a little more. I tied a very thin line, 1/8" to 3/16", could also use thin bungee cord, from the becket on that block to the backstay above the adjustable triangle section, to help hold it up. Be sure to not restrict movement across the traveler.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/01/2008 17:07:50

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 20:25:23

David - Okay now I understand ! I guess you are right it is going to save quite a number of feet ---also less line laying in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 21:00:12

Just be sure to try it first before you cut your line.

Some of you may not like it.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/01/2008 21:01:09

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2008 : 22:09:29

I would be concerned about an accidental jibe in good wind. Would that "small line" withstand the shock? We snapped a 3/4" preventer on a jibe on that 50' catamaran.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 10:50:53

I don't know that much about loads, and we do lake sailing, not ocean sailing, where conditions are obviously very different.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 12:52:53

Since I tend to sail in higher winds, I changed my mainsheet from a 3:1 to a 4:1 setup. I also went with a slightly larger line to make it easier on my hands and to make it easier for my girls to haul in the mainsheet.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 15:36:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 I would be concerned about an accidental jibe in good wind. Would that "small line" withstand the shock? We snapped a 3/4" preventer on a jibe on that 50' catamaran.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That was my thought Derek. Frank makes a good point about Dyneema or some of the other brands of line, but the shock on a high wind gybe can easily beat that up over time. Unless it was blowing 20, the only time I would ever reel it in all that line was at the leeward mark so it was never an issue for me.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2008 : 16:53:05

I was looking over the situation today - Went sailing for a little while but very little wind. In those instances when you have light wind, the main tends to come in a bit. Shifting over to the leeward side seat, helps keep the main out but if you were to add that single line starting from the boom, then the block that is generally attached to the end of the bboom will be somewhere in the middle of the main sheet and while the block does not weigh very much, I wonder if the main would not stay out as far unless the wind picked up a tad.

I guess it's easy enough to experiment and see if using the single line seems overall of benefit. If not, then could always go back the way it was.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2008 : 22:22:36

The great thing about the single line addition I'm suggesting is that it doesn't change your present system, whether 3:1 or 4:1. All it does do is reduce the amount of line that has to be hauled in when you tack, especially going from down wind to close hauled, such as rounding a leeward mark. However, I do think it might work better with a 3:1 set-up, depending on what type of block you presently have on the boom with your 4:1 system; a side-by-side double block or a fiddle block. I'm not sure I would want a fiddle block hanging down 3-4 feet from my boom. On the other hand, the skipper with the 4:1 system will see the greater advantage by not having to sheet in 4x the length of the single line instead of only 3x.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 13:11:37

What a great way to cut down on line handling. My only thought is that I enjoy standing while underway and on occasion lean against, hang onto and rub against the reeved lines of the main-sheet. I wonder if the top block would become annoying?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 16:06:54

The top block should be out of your way most of the time. If your mainsheet is tight enough for you to lean against it, most likely you are close hauled or near it, in which case the top block will be low and close to the traveler block.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 16:38:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 If your mainsheet is tight enough for you to lean against it, most likely you are close hauled or near it, in which case the top block will be low and close to the traveler block.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and you're leaning against a single piece of rope--not four.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 16:51:46

Does anyone have a picture of how this extra line would look on a C25?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2008 : 18:59:10

I don't have pictures, but try to visualize this:
While at the dock on a calm day, remove the mainsheet block at the end of the boom and pull the sheet in until the block stops just short of the block on the traveler and cleat it off. Take a 5'long line, 5/16" or 3/8" size, and secure it to the boom. Next run the line to the shackle on the block that was removed from the boom, mark the length, loosen the sheet, and secure the line to the block. Re-tighten the sheet and check spacing. Now raise the main, and sheet it in tight, checking the spacing again. Your two mainsheet blocks now should be very close to each other with the single line extending from the top block to the boom.
Hope that helps.

Edited 2/7/08: The weather has let up and I was able to get out and set up a temporary rig and take pics. Please ignore the way i tied the knot at the blocks. It's a temporary set-up just for the photo op. The permanent set-up will be with a bowline at both ends.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/07/2008 20:12:13

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 20:28:12

I'll suggest that you don't, in the finished product, tie the line directly to the tang on the boom. It could cut through the line. Almost any kind of shackle would be better.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 20:32:13

Thanx for the pics.
I thought that was what you were describing - but as always a picture is worth a thousand words and now I understand fully. Looks like an excellent idea, and should save having a lot of mainsheet line on the cockpit floor.
Now...as a supplementary question, where do you guys store your mainsheet? I have a mesh line bag attached to the aft cockpit wall, just under the tiller.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.