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marine radio question

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quilombo
Captain

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USA
301 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/07/2008 : 16:33:21

want to thank all for all the helpfull responces I appreciate it and its great information,
so with that said I have some more questions,,
my cat 25 has a marine radio cable going through the hull, as most of you know with an antenna on top of the mast,
was just wondering instead of my replacing the cable, ends, through couplings etc,, what do you guys think of a good quality hand held radio instead of all that stuff cluttering up the cabin , wires etc, I do most of my sailing on the Hudson River and NY harbour and with todays radio's , is it really neccessay to have a big antenna , etc, any thoughts???

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2008 : 16:35:44

I have a handheld and a fixed. The fixed has a range of about 15 - 20 miles and is 25 watts. The handheld is 1 to 5 watts and has a range of about 2 miles.

90% of the time I talk on the handheld because it is so easy.

If you are going far offshore you need the fixed.

PS you may notice from my picture I abandoned the 3 foot antenna on top of the mast for a high quality, high gain 8 foot antenna on the stern pulpit.

Less windage, much easier install, same range and quality (if not better).

Edited by - JimB517 on 03/07/2008 16:37:39

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2008 : 21:51:01

For your venue, a handheld will take care of you. The Coast Guard can pick you up and you can hear them from well over 20 miles on a handheld, although other boats might not get you from over 2-3 miles, depending on their antennas.

I concur with Jim's approach--a good 4' or 8' antenna on the sternrail is nearly as effective as a little stick on the masthead for coastal use. (Contrary to popular belief, VHF signals go a ways over the horizon just as water waves curve into protected bays.) I have an 8' antenna on the hardtop over my helm, and I can communicate with the USCG in NJ, 120 miles away. My handheld will reach their powerful Southern New England receivers from anywhere around me.

The advantage of Jim's rig is that there is no deck-plug connection, which can induce substantial power losses, and less cable length (same). Also, the antenna doesn't present as much of a lightning target. If I were starting over on the C-25 I no longer own, I'd probably do the same thing.

All of that said, it's not a bad idea to have more than one radio, but if you have only one, make it a hand-held.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/08/2008 08:20:03

quilombo
Captain

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USA
301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 06:54:13

thanks guys thats good advise, Im gonna try repairing the connections on the plugs for the cable going up into my mast and try using two radios as you guys mention, , just dont like the way the cable looks going down into my cabin, the previous owner did a sloppy job routing it and I just would rather spend my time giving attention to other areas , but Ill go out today and try to locate some ends so I can get the mast antenna up and running again,
thanks again

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3448 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 08:42:51

There is another option if you decide to replace the base radio. The newer base radios have plug-ins to hook up a remote wired unit or they have separate wireless remotes that transmit/receive thru the base radio. If your existing base radio is not all that old, it may have this capability - Option to utlize a remote. Some of the companies like Standard Horizon sell these type of remotes. These style remotes that work off the base unit cost about $100 - $150. The WM Catalog has descriptions of them. They have the same range as your base unit for sending and receiving since they utilize the base radio's antenna and power but offer the convenience of utilizing them in the cockpit.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/08/2008 08:44:06

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 09:06:43

A remote can be handy, but a handheld is good insurance--for example, when you have an electical problem (fire?)... (Been there.) ...or your masthead antenna becomes inoperative... (Been there too.)

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 10:14:59

If you get a handheld, make sure it has a fully 'submersible' rating. ICOM is a highly regarded brand, I have one and am very happy with it. Other folks will probably pitch in here with suggestions too.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 11:38:12

I recently got a new vhf fully submersible handheld with rechargable lithium batteries for $90 from West Marine, also came with a nice fixed mount.

Good backup to my fixed radio and very useful. The fixed mount is bolted to a little shelf in the salon and is fully charged at all times.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 14:10:28

We use the Atlantis 250 with the floatation jacket as our away from the boat unit and the VHF on the boat with the mast antenna and a emergency antenna on the shelf. There is also a CB with an marine antenna mounted on the stern pulpit. On our inland lakes and boat to boat is our old standby except during sun disturbances. Use the 1 watt power for the VHF in harbors. Monitoring 16 sure has a lot of drama especially on the weekends which allows for your help. How many maintain a watch on 16?

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 14:39:10

I switched eight years ago from the mast head antennae to an eight foot Shakespeare
glass stick mounted on the transom and stern pulpit. One caution however is that you "TRY" not to grab it if you lose your balance, it goes crunchy if you do and looks rakish to say the least. I reglassed the first one and used it until I was sure that I'd not use it as a handrail again, then I replaced it.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 14:49:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sweetcraft
 ...How many maintain a watch on 16?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ahh... the subject of a lively, recent thread! The USCG expects coastal boaters to monitor 16 when not active on another channel--it's in their regulations. I generally monitor 9, 13 & 16.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/08/2008 14:51:00

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 17:23:11

I missed the 16 thread so what is our responsiblity?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 18:04:55

>"How many maintain a watch on 16?"

If you have a radio on, you're supposed to be monitoring channel 16.

I have a 3 channel scan set up: 16, 68 and 72. 68 and 72 are the most commonly used channels here for non-hailing traffic.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2008 : 20:38:22

Handhelds are quite adequate in limited sailing areas such as yours. The problem with a high gain antenna is the flatness of the radiation pattern. Try talking to a boat a mile and 10 miles away when significantly heeled. Reception is not diminished (may even be enhanced) by a high gain antenna, only transmission is affected; antenna gain is achieved by flattening the radiation pattern from a hemisphere to a donut, the higher the gain, the flatter the donut.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 11:04:14

Val,

Did switching from masthead antenna to rail mount make much difference in transmission or reception distance?

GaryB

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 11:26:01

Gary,

There wasn't any noticeable difference in either transmit or receive, nothing measured at any rate. What was measurable was the SWR's and the stick was flat right out of the box with both of them. The mast head antennae was virtually impossible to bring the SWR'S in balance, and I was blaming one of the two mast head antennaes for blowing the finals of an earlier radio thinking that I had been using it over time without checking it out. Perhaps.

My main reason for going with the stick was to lighten the mast top weight. The tall rig Catalinas with wing keels want to reduce weight aloft wherever possible, I seem to think.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 11:33:41

Bruce,

My understanding is that if you have a functioning radio it must be on and monitoring ch-16. Gotta find the RULES and check it out.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 12:12:00

I don't mean to highjack this thread so if it comes across that way let me know and I will move this to a separate thread.

I sail on Galveston Bay which is approx. 15 miles by 30 miles and I want something that will reach from the farthest corners of the bay.

Which make(s) and model(s) of radios are the best? West Marine, Standard Horizon, Icom, or Uniden? What about the best antennas. I'm thinking I'll go with rail mount at this time.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 14:18:52

Pearl came with a rail mount for the radio and a 3' whip directly on the radio, an 8db would have been a major improvement. I could probably have yelled at anyone I could talk to. I could tx and rx Mobile from Pensacola with my masthead. But the rail mount is great if it works for you.

Incidentally, coming back from Pensacola to Ohio at the beginning of March was a bad idea. Thirteen inches of snow, 40 mph winds, and single digit temps were not what I expected. I think I'll stay a little longer next year

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3448 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 16:46:23

Gary,

There are a number on this thread that seem to have had success mounting the antenna from the stern rail, however, I seem to recall from articles I have read to get maximum distance receiving and transmitting, you need a base unit since they have the higher power setting that the handhelds do not and ideally, the antenna should be as high up as possible.

As far as which base unit VHF to get...I believe they mostly utilize the same wattage high setting for transmitting and so then I think it really comes down to the individual preferences each person has based on the mfrs and the addl features each model has to offer. When it comes to the basics, most of the radios will be similar. Perhaps, only the low end VHF radios are not ...what is it DCS ? compliant.

Okay...now all the experts can chime in on this subject !! Okay...let's hear from you guys !

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/09/2008 16:48:08

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 16:57:49

While I was looking at West Marine's online catalog I noticed that Shakespeare makes a 19' antenna that could be rail or fixed mounted. Thought about going that route to avoid having to mount an antenna on the top of the mast.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:08:18

Ws that 19' VHF or SW band?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3448 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:22:59

A 19 FOOT ANTENNA ! That's not for me. Okay...guess that will work but personally, I would hire a guy to take the mast down and do the install on the mast or use a shorty antenna off the stern rail or use a hand held...but a 19 foot antenna ....that goes against the grain for me.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:35:34

14',19', and 23' VHF Antenna's

http://ecatalog.westmarine.com/zoom.asp?page=33

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:39:59

I'm getting ready to take down the mast anyway to replace the mast light wiring so I'm not worried about taking the mast down. I just worry about taking a lightning strike on the masthead mounted antenna plus the extra length and hassle of running the coax from the top of the mast down to the cabin.

With a 19' rail mount I can put the antenna in the cabin when I'm not using it and the coax run would be very short for better output. I would still have close to the same height without all the other hassles.

Edited by - GaryB on 03/09/2008 17:41:22

GaryB
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Response Posted - 03/09/2008 : 17:41:54

What make and model radios do you guys have on your boats?

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