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Heaving to

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/15/2008 : 17:01:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Another instance when your rudder may need to be over 45 degrees is when you are heaving to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've tried with full main and with 110 jib in both 3-5 knot breezes and with more wind - maybe 10 knots, and I can't get the boat to heave to. The bow keeps turning downwind with the tiller in any position.

So I would be interested to know who can get their boat to heave to, and with which rig.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - JohnP on 03/15/2008 17:31:13

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 18:53:31

Did you experiment by adjusting the sheets (main and jib) in and out a bit?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 20:00:51

Clam,
The jib was backed and I tried with the main hauled in. The boat just turned way downwind, then sailed fast on a beam reach or something, and never seem to tack back into balance.

I also read some place that you can let the main luff, so I tried with the main sheet released, but that didn't help.

Can you get your boat to heave to?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 20:51:00

Now I did what many of you would probably suggest - search for "heave to" in the archives. Found a lot of stuff. Here's a good one:
"Bill Holcomb
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 17:29:24
-----------
The easiest way to heave to on a C25 is to simply tack the boat and not touch any of the sheets as you do so. The jib will quickly be backwinded, and the main will be in its "normal" position. As the boat slows down, you may want to lash the tiller to leeward.

With the boat in this configuration, you'll sort of do a "falling leaf": first heading up till the jib gets more pressure on it than the main; then falling off to leeward until the main gets more pressure. Depending on the breeze, you'll probably have around .5 to 1 knot of boatspeed.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839"

Many sailors have succeeded at heaving to with a C25. Apparently adjusting the main sheet or reefing the main could help balance my boat hove-to. I'll go ahead and try it when I can. It's nice to know that it works!

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 21:52:53

"Can you get your boat to heave to?"

I'd say my success at heaving to in the classical sense is 'sort of'. The boat will make headway and do 'S' turns as it heads up then falls off the wind rather than sit nicely at a constant heading. A true cruising boat will sit steady to the wind almost like being parked.

Going down into the cabin and moving around also changes the way the boat 'sets' to the wind quite a bit. I don't think I'd really trust my boat to 'stay put' while I went below to take a nap. Maybe the fin or wing models would do better than a swing keel.

In contrast, I had a chance to drive Bruce Ebling's full keel Cape Dory 25 on a blustery day. Compared to the C25 it had great directional stability... it tracks like it's on rails. I think that's the sort of boat you could heave to and take a nap in without having to worry about where you might end up :>)

The downside of the full keel was the turning radius... a C25 will literally sail circles around it. Different designs for different purposes.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 22:01:07

I haven't been able to heave to with the C25 yet, but I plan on trying it again this coming year. I used to do it no problem in my 16 foot SunBird daysailor.
Every time I tried to heave to in the Catalina, the boat just spun around. It stayed in generally the same spot which is the goal of heaving to, but I finally got dizzy.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 22:24:36

I don't seem to have any troubles heaving to. Before tacking over, I ensure the sheets for both the 135 and the main are hardened up, then I put the boat over onto the opposite tack, then lash the tiller hardover to leeward. Seems to work every time.

Edited by - on

dreddick
Navigator

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117 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2008 : 23:11:14

We had success last year just using the back filled jib and the rudder and letting the main sheet out about as far as it wanted to go.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 05:57:02

In all the years I had my C25, I never tried heaving to, but I have done it with my present boat. I think Don has the right idea. If the jibsheets are not hardened up enough, the jib will generate too much power, and that will drive the bow off to leeward. If the mainsheet isn't hardened up enough, the jib will blanket the mainsail, preventing the wind from getting to it. Heaving to works because both sails are working in balance against each other.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 07:35:01

Patrick Obrian mentions it occasionally in his Master and Commander novels. Any idea if that is the same thing in a square rigger?

Edited by - DanM on 03/16/2008 07:36:29

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 08:57:45

I practice heaving to quite often...just to know I can. Exactly how Don describes. When I was new to sailing I would attempt to heave to but quite often would just spin donuts in the water. Come to find out, in all the excitement, I was putting the tiller hardover to windward

. The tiller must be hardover to leeward (acts as a super brake). Now, in 20 kts plus, just heave to, Boo Boo and I break out the picinic basket, have a coldy, and just be amazed at the calm surrounding the boat while whitecaps cover the Bay.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 11:51:02

I think your sails are overpowering opposing force of the rudder.

I always thought that heaving to was done with only the head sail.

I must confess, I never tried to heave to, but I do understand the principal of it.

I used to sail, without touching the tiller, by balancing the trim of the sails. The genoa wants to steer the boat to leeward. The main wants to steer to windward. I would let the genoa out a bit and then use the main sail like a rudder and steer by trimming it. It was pretty cool.

Just some thoughts.

PW

Edited by - pwhallon on 03/16/2008 11:58:58

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 12:03:08

I didn't try it often or in a full range of conditions, but I found that the jib should be hardened and then I'd play with the mainsheet to gain balance--generally not totally hardened. To get a flat, backwinded jib with my 130, it worked best to roll it down to about 110--otherwise it would be too full.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2008 : 15:29:32

I've never had any trouble heaving to in my C25. Try easing the mainsheet.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 07:55:18

I've tried briefly to heave to with no success, but I'll try again with these tips in mind! Thanks!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 08:49:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 I've tried with full main and with 110 jib in both 3-5 knot breezes and with more wind - maybe 10 knots, and I can't get the boat to heave to.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm wondering if "heaving to" is more effective at higher wind speeds? Of the times I was hove to, wind speeds were probably north, sometimes well north, of 15kts with seas upwards of 3ft. 3-5 knots to me doesn't seem to be much wind for heaving to.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 09:18:15

I would think that if ya want to stop the boat in 3 - 5 knot winds why not just drop the sails and drift?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 09:27:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I would think that if ya want to stop the boat in 3 - 5 knot winds why not just drop the sails and drift?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That'll work, too, but it's much less effort to heave to than to lower both sails and raise them again.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm wondering if "heaving to" is more effective at higher wind speeds? Of the times I was hove to, wind speeds were probably north, sometimes well north, of 15kts with seas upwards of 3ft. 3-5 knots to me doesn't seem to be much wind for heaving to.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Probably so. When you heave to, you're relying on the wind pressure on the sails to keep the boat oriented toward the wind. If the wind is too light, and especially if it gets fluky, the wind might not be strong or steady enough to keep it from drifting around.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/17/2008 09:36:44

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 10:03:06

The jib sheets must be set for close haul, maybe as loose as close reach, but NOT further, or else the maneuver is hard to do for a first timer.

As you get better balancing the boat, you can start it from different points of sail, but Steve's right, get the boat sailing tight upwind, then heave to, or else she'll just wanna keep going around.

BTW - any full keeled boat will obviously heave to differently, but the S curve course when hove to is normal for boats with this underbody.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 15:15:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I would think that if ya want to stop the boat in 3 - 5 knot winds why not just drop the sails and drift?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">True, but heaving to is a technique specifically for winds and waves that are strong enough that you don't want to drift abeam to the seas, as it will tend to do, causing the boat to roll violently. Heaving to keeps the bow somewhat into the seas, and your filled sails greatly stabilize the boat.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2008 : 15:31:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I would think that if ya want to stop the boat in 3 - 5 knot winds why not just drop the sails and drift?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">True, but heaving to is a technique specifically for winds and waves that are strong enough that you don't want to drift abeam to the seas, as it will tend to do, causing the boat to roll violently. Heaving to keeps the bow somewhat into the seas, and your filled sails greatly stabilize the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yup. In 3 - 5 knotw, it probably won't be a problem

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2008 : 07:13:47

OK - reviving this thread...spent a bunch of time yesterday and just couldn't get it to work, pretty steady 10kt wind...this string seems to cover all the permutations...will try again today...

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2008 : 07:34:05

What works for me is to get the boat completely stopped of any forward motion before I heave to.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2008 : 09:13:08

I've been practicing this more this season. I've done my share of donuts in the water but I think I finally got it. One thing I've found is that it helps to slow down. I mean the action of the captain, not the boat. Trying to get everything done quickly -- turn into the wind, tack the main, throw the tiller over -- faster than you can even say all of that doesn't allow for the boat to slow adequately while the main and jib are both luffing. Try nearly stopping the boat by turning into the wind first. Then, allow the main to come over. Then secure the tiller to leeward. I enjoyed a lovely sunset last night while drifting to leeward at about 1.5 knots by GPS and O knots on knotmeter.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2008 : 22:35:45

On my 16 foot day sailor, I could do the standard backwind the jib, harden the main and tie the tiller hard over. This was great for 10-15 knot winds, especially in gusty conditions. This worked great, no problems.

So when started out with the C25, I gave it a try and with the full genoa, the boat alternated on port, then gybed to starboard, then back to port. It was not pretty.

I reckoned that what worked on my daysailor should work on Passage. I furled the jib back to the size of my old jib. Then I set it up as on the daysailor, and it worked great.

I found that if I adjusted the furler in and out, I could adjust the boat's angle to the wind. I did not want to be abeam of the wind, as this tended to make the boat sway on each passing wave. So if I pulled in the furler a little bit, I could get the bow quartering into the wind

Once you get the feel, it's generally easy to set up.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2008 : 07:46:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 I found that if I adjusted the furler in and out, I could adjust the boat's angle to the wind. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Interesting, that balancing the jib & main helps the C-25 heave to. So with my 110 jib, I may need to reef the main or tuck in a half-reef.

Thanks, Bruce

On Sunday morning I sailed on a broad reach in light NW winds right over a small school of bluefish in the Chesapeeake Bay north of Sandy Point Light, with three seagulls just starting to pick up the fish scraps. Would have been nice to heave to and bring home dinner.

But I was not in the mood to drop the bimini, head up, drop the main, drop the jib, and motor around, so I just kept going. I'll practise heaving-to again, now.

It's a skill that would be great to use for this special kind of sailing emergency - a school of tasty fish appearing all of a sudden.

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