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Bottom paint bubbles

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5445 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2008 : 22:13:05

Over the years, there's been enough bottom paint on Passage to choke a horse. The problem now is that being so thick, and having had wet spots the expanded and created 'bubbles' that cracked off the bottom, there are about 2 dozen spots where all the paint has chipped off, all the way down to the fibreglass, or to the primer coating.

Although I repainted the bottom last spring 2007 when I first got the boat, there were apparently a few chips that failed over last summer, and as I inspected this winter, barnacles had an opportunity to set-in on a few small sections last year. The marina guy cleared these when he pulled the boat for the season in Nov, but you can still see the attachment points.

What I plan to do next week is bust off as many of these bubbles as possible this spring, and repaint only the bad spots.

That said, I can be convinced otherwise, but I'd like to really know: is there a good reason and recommended procedure for fixing this problem - short of sandblasting or powerwashing the whole thing, and starting out with a fresh coat of paint?

I'm not looking forward to making that much hazardous dust. What should I do?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 07:49:51

Very little toxicity left in old paint, it leaches out in the water. From the sounds of it you are probably sailing a boat who's bottom is slowing you down a lot. Some claim they don't care about speed but the boat does not sail well with a bottom like that. Be a good steward of your boat, get that old paint off.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 09:23:26

Many layers of old bottom paint act just the same as many layers of old house paint. You can continue to put more layers on top of old paint up to a certain point, but there will be a time when the new paint will cause the old paint to peel and flake off in big chunks. When that happens, it ruins the boat's performance, and the only real remedy is to strip it all off and start over again. (Some people don't care that much about the boat's performance, and I've seen people continue putting a new coat of paint over badly peeling paint for many years. To each his own. In fact, I remember seeing one boat that didn't even look like the owner had cleaned off the old slime or mud before painting over it. It seems like the least a guy could do is give it a little spray with a hose and a little scrubbing, for crying out loud!

) The good news is that paint manufacturers have developed ablative paints, and, if you do it right, they won't accumulate like the old paints, and you'll never have to strip off the old paint again. If you strip the old paint, you'll be amazed at how well it'll make your boat perform, even with old sails. With new sails, it'll be downright hot!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/31/2008 09:25:01

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 10:31:41

I to am facing the same problem. Multi years build up,some places
chipped off down to gel coat all over rough shape. "About Time" is sailed on the upper Ches. Bay and Sassafras River Md. The water content is mostly fresh however the saltline moves up in summer.
All the bottom paint needs to come off..What is the most recommended
way of doing the job of removal then redoing the bottom I'm considering sand blasting rather than stipping or grinding.
The swing keel is is pitted quite badly also In reading about VC_17
it seems like it is designed for freshwater Also the budget is limited. I will appreciate all suggestions. Splash down........?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 11:36:13

Check out soda blasting in lieu of sand blasting. It's supposed to be easier on the gel coat. Also, I'm pretty sure that the guy who did my bottom wet-sanded the old ablative paint off - no dust but you'll need someplace for the tainted water to go.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/31/2008 11:39:36

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 11:59:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Law
 I to am facing the same problem. Multi years build up,some places
chipped off down to gel coat all over rough shape... All the bottom paint needs to come off..What is the most recommended
way of doing the job of removal then redoing the bottom I'm considering sand blasting rather than stipping or grinding... Also the budget is limited. I will appreciate all suggestions. Splash down........?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> The most cost effective way I've found of stripping the bottom of a boat is in your neighborhood, but, to do the best job of it, you'll need to do some work yourself.

There is a fellow in your area who planes off the old paint. I would not have trusted anyone to do it that way, but I saw him do it to a beautiful Hinkley, and afterwards to my boat, and he controls his plane so precisely that he removes all but the last one or two layers of paint without so much as scratching the gelcoat. When he's done, you have to at least sand it smooth overall, and chip off a thin strip around the waterline and any thru-hulls, but you can paint over what's left. If you want the absolute best job, as I did, you have to strip the rest with a paint stripper (I can tell you where to get it inexpensively in your area), and strip the last layer or two that he doesn't remove.

If you're interested, he visits my marina at this time of year, so now would be the best time to arrange it.

Contact John Little at Flag Haven Marine Service in St. Leonard, MD, just south of Prince Frederick. His phone # is (410)586-1915. You can work on your own boat there, as long as you follow their reasonable rules and bring your own tools. They have a travelift, if you need to be lifted out. John is the marina manager, and a good guy. The work is done by a guy who makes the rounds of different marinas each year, and John can get you on his schedule.

Sometime in the next 2-3 weeks, whenever the weather is nice enough to stay comfortably on the boat, I'll be going there for the summer. After my boat is ready to launch, I might help you a little with your boat, or at least watch you do it, and make annoying suggestions. While I'm in Maryland, I check my email almost every day, and can be contacted by email.

It's impossible to say what needs to be done with your keel without seeing it. It'll take anywhere from a day to perhaps three days of work, depending on it's condition, but the bottom work is the most unpleasant part. The keel work isn't too bad.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 13:20:20

Sand or soda (preferred) blasting is fairly pricey, and the boat must be completely tented (here in CT). To me, the most cost-effective and environmentally friendly method is chemical stripper--slop it on, cover it for the prescribed time, and then peel and scrape off the paint into a garbage bag. The warmer the weather, the better the stripper will work. I've been told not to waste my money if the temp isn't above 60. WM sells stuff, and Home Dopey has some that are supposed to be OK on fiberglass.

As you can tell, Bruce, I didn't get a "round tuit" with Passage--I just added some abblative every couple of years. Every year I wanted to do something about it but erred on the side of launching instead. I don't know what Bill did between us, but my PO(s) put on lots of hard paint.

{soapbox} WARNING: Don't pretend that old bottom paint is not toxic! Ablative paints keep their toxicity indefinitely, and hard paints that have lost their surface effectiveness are are still toxic below their surface, so their dust and chips are bad stuff. The copper oxidizes on the surface (more rapidly in air) from cuprous oxide to the less toxic cupric oxide--neither is good for you. Sanding requires a serious respirator and skin protection. The effects are long-term, in your liver, nervous system, heart, and such. There's just no point in taking shortcuts with this stuff. {/soapbox}

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/31/2008 13:49:40

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 15:30:56

Old bottom paint is toxic.

Once airborne, it will adhere to just about anything, especially nearby boats and people.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 19:53:49

Practical Sailor's review of strippers (paint), put Franmar's Soy Strip at he top, but they just compared it to West Marine's new stripper and the WM product was slightly better but more difficult to apply.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5445 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 21:57:48

Sounds like I can (1) get some chemical stripper, a garbage bag and a dust mask, (2) call the guy with the plane, or (3) use the sand/soda blaster with the radiation suit and plastic tent. Seems like number 1 is the preferred approach.

Just a Q for the experienced. If I should get down to the gel coat in certain areas, do I need to prime the surface first, then apply the bottom paint?

Edited by - on

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 22:07:12

Steve - does the stripper guy travel or do I have to bring boat down south? My boat yard wants $5oo. for sand blasting, Soda blasting quote is 900 boat units. I also saw the article in practical sailor on paint strippers. The way it is costing out strippers looks to be the way I'll be going. However the cold weather will push back using paint strippers
After cleaning up bottom and checking/repairing for blisters etc.
what is the next sequence....primer..barrier coat or..??
Sounds like a lot of work for an old timer.

Frank Law
"About Time" #3519
sr/swk/8hp honda

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2008 : 22:26:56

Frank: In fresh water, to do it "right", you should put on an epoxy barrier coat. Fresh water causes more osmotic blistering problems than salt. Also, cross off sand blasting as an option--it's very tough on the gelcoat. Soda is gentler. $900 is a good price for it--around here it's almost double that.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 07:54:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Law
 Steve - does the stripper guy travel or do I have to bring boat down south? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> He travels, but I have no idea what his sdchedule is. John Little can put you in contact with him. The estimates you're getting are really pretty good. You might be getting the "AARP" discount. Maybe you should stick with your marina manager.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The way it is costing out strippers looks to be the way I'll be going. However the cold weather will push back using paint strippers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> The paint stripper that I use works as well as any I've found, costs about $30. a gallon, and is available in your area. I use Klean Strip paint remover. They make different types, but you want the type that is specifically designed for stripping paint from fiberglass. The other stuff is too aggressive. I had a web address for the specific product, but it isn't working, so I have emailed the manufacturer, and should get a reply later today. I'll let you know what I learn.

I used chemical strippers to strip my C25 to the bare glass, and it's not too bad if the temperatures allow the stuff to work. On my C&C 35, I had it planed off, and then used chemical stripper to remove the rest down to the bare glass.

I'm 65, and it's not a pleasant job for either a young guy or an old timer, but I kept myself motivated by telling myself I'll never have to do it again, and the boat will sail sooooo well!

The last time I called the Interlux customer service line for advice, several years ago, they said you should either apply a barrier coat before you apply antifouling, or you should apply a primer. Either one will provide a good bond for the antifouling paint. It's very important, however, that you read and follow the instructions on the can carefully. They recommend that you to apply each successive coat of paint within a limited amount of time (about a day, as I remember) after you applied the previous coat, so that each coat bonds chemically to the other. If you get delayed, you should lightly sand the paint before applying the next coat. I'd suggest you call Interlux to get their current advice about their current products. You can get their customer service number either on-line or off the label of the paint can.

On both of my boats, I applied 4-5 coats of barrier paint, rather than primer. You'll find that the hard part of a bottom job is taking off the old paint. Putting on the new stuff is easy. It just takes time. By applying barrier paint while you have everything stripped down, you will protect the bottom from blisters for many years.

Edited by - on

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 10:29:25

Thanks for responses Steve,and Daves. What are the choices on barrier
coats ? Looks like Bruce and I need to get our plans in order quickly.

Frank Law
"about Time" #3519
83,sr,swk

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2008 : 11:49:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Law
 What are the choices on barrier
coats ? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I used Interlux Interprotect 2000E System on both boats. Boat Bandit's Item # is: INT Y2001E

When you buy it, try to get enough gray for the first coat or two, and then use white for the successive coats. That way, it's easy to see if there are any areas where the paint is thin, or if you're getting a good, uniform coverage.

I bought mine on-line last spring from Boat Bandit, and their price was considerably better than anyplace I found, although they only had one color. www.boatbandit.com My computer doesn't want to open their website today, so I can't check their prices for you. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Edit: Yay! The website just opened for me. Their current price is $69.95 a gal. Call Interlux's (800) customer service line, and they can tell you how much you'll need to cover a C25 hull.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/01/2008 12:00:22

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 09:56:21

Getting back to paint strippers I found R & E Paint Supply carries
klean strip fiberglass paint remover cost about $20.00 gal. I did have to talk to a sales rep about this product as it did not show on the website .shipping cost about $8.00 gal Arkansaw to PA. he thought I should get it within 3 days.

Frank Law
"About Time" 3519
83,sr,swk
Sassafras rvr Md

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 11:01:11

That sounds like the stuff, Frank. It'll probably take 2-3 gallons to do the job. That price sounds pretty good. I think I paid $30. per gallon for it last year, including shipping. I applied it with a 4-5" brush, waited 30-40 minutes and brushed on another coat, waited 30-40 minutes and brushed on another coat. The trick is to keep it wet, and let the chemicals do the work. Don't get overly anxious and try to scrape it before it has loosened the paint. It'll be easier if you're patient. After 3-4 coats, try scraping a small area with a putty knife or scraper to see if it's loosened enough. If not, brush on another coat. Also, don't leave it on overnight. If you leave it on that long, it'll just dry out, and it won't work any better. If I remember correctly, you want to use a natural bristle brush, because the stripper will eat the bristles of a man made brush.

Also, I use synthetic latex (not natural latex) surgical gloves. You can get them at many drug stores for about $10. for a box of about 100. They withstand the chemicals, and, if they get too slimy or get a hole in them, you can just peel one off, throw it away, and put on another one. Also, wear old long pants and a long sleeved shirt, and keep a roll of paper towels handy, because the stripper burns if you get it on your skin. Wear eye protection, to prevent the brush from flipping paint stripper into your eyes.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/09/2008 11:05:35

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