Association Forum - CDI Furlers/reefers

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

CDI Furlers/reefers

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Member Avatar

40 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:15:58

I'm going to install a furler/reefing system on my Cat 25...

I've talked to 3 sail makers and 2 riggers about the different ones on the market and all 5 have told me to stay away from the CDI....

The sailmakers won't even sell one (not an issue but perhaps makes a point?) and neither of the riggers will agree to install or even help to install one of them.

The sailmakers tell me they've seen sails damaged by them and seen where the units themselves have broken causing other damage....

The riggers say that anyone who uses one to "reef" is asking for rig damage or worse..

Granted, down here in Mobile the wind often gets very blustery with 20-25knts not being rare..

The price of the CDI is awful tempting but as I plan to single hand most of the time a unit that won't stand up to that kind of pressure would certainly be a false economy.

What say you?

Further IF I did buy one seems I'd have to install it alone.... the "uncoiling" procedure that I've read looks to be a real pain in the behind..... even the "optional" way of sticking it into a pvc pipe and letting sit in the sun for a few weeks.... how then are you to get it to the marina?

Leaving it at the marina to straighten is obviously not an option.

Steven Reeves
Dauphin Island, Alabama

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:39:52

Talk to Catalina Yachts.
1-818-884-7700

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:48:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kaferhaus
 I've talked to 3 sail makers and 2 riggers about the different ones on the market and all 5 have told me to stay away from the CDI...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, you've got two choices. Keep searching for a sailmaker/rigger who'll recommend the CDI or take their advice.

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:51:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 Talk to Catalina Yachts.
1-818-884-7700
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank, how could I possibly get an unbiased opinion from them? They install them on their products.... maybe because they're so inexpensive??

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:58:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Well, you've got two choices. Keep searching for a sailmaker/rigger who'll recommend the CDI or take their advice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm looking for some input on any problems members here have had with it.... both operational and installation wise.

The "riggers" and sailmakers are all recommending "harken". Too expensive for my blood. There are plenty of others in between so far as price is concerned.

I don't mind paying more than what the CDI can be had for IF it gives the performance I need and meets the value test.

Maybe the CDI will perform the way I need it too.... if so then I need some ideas on how to get it straightened out AND taken to the marina... Many of the systems I've looked at can be installed solo without too much trouble. It doesn't appear the CDI fits in that catagory.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 13:59:37

I've had Schaeffer and CDI. They both work just fine. For boats our size these units are really not all that complex. Are you buying a new sail or having yours modified? If you are buying new then why bother with local sailmakers at all? All of this stuff can be ordered online and installed yourself.

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:02:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I've had Schaeffer and CDI. They both work just fine. For boats our size these units are really not all that complex. Are you buying a new sail or having yours modified? If you are buying new then why bother with local sailmakers at all? All of this stuff can be ordered online and installed yourself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Heaven's no... I'll order the sail and furling unit online.

Doesn't appear the CDI can be installed solo.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:18:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kaferhaus
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 Talk to Catalina Yachts.
1-818-884-7700
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank, how could I possibly get an unbiased opinion from them? They install them on their products.... maybe because they're so inexpensive??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Cynic?
Catalina Yachts has a remarkable history of customer service, most people talk to either the designer of their boat, Frank Butler or both, (sometimes the same person). While they manufacture a product to a target market based on price point, they also have a stronger brand loyalty than most companies. If they use CDI it is because it satisfies their customers, who sail all over the world in all conditions. I suggested that you call them because you have been talking to people who have some professional standing to answer your question, none of us here do, you seem to need an "authoritative" counter to what you have been told. To me Catalina Yachts would be such a source.
If you are willing to take our advise, mine is, your sources are full of crap. But I sail in a mud hole in the middle of Kansas, what do I know.

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:37:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But I sail in a mud hole in the middle of Kansas<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm aware of that and take it into account whenever I read any of your posts or mainsheet articles. Not necessarily in a bad way either. I've met plenty of great sailors who've never been out of a pond.

I value everyone's advice regardless of the fact that I may or may not heed it.

Obviously I'm a fan of Catalina boats.... I do own one.

I too am in the manufacturing business and "price point" hit the nail on the head... along with "margin" and acceptable quality equals financial success in most businesses.

I would value the opinions of end users who frequently sail in the conditions that I do, and who have installed the unit themselves a bit higher than someone who had a group of guys install it and rarely sails in seas over 4' or winds over 20mph. That's just not a fact of life here. Conditions here are often 4-6ft with 20-25 mph sustained winds gusting to 30 or so.

Anything above that and I stay at the dock as I don't consider those conditions as ripe for a good time. Other folks do.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:53:23

I have no experience with the CDI furler, Kaferhaus, and can't answer your questions, but I know a lot of guys on the forum have them, so, stand by, and they'll give you some feedback as they log on. I can say that I don't remember hearing anything bad about them, so that's a start.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 14:55:40

The Schaeffer could not be installed solo either. The luff track came in a round bundle and was wicked to straighten. I think any of these is a two person job.

Another place to call is catalinadirect. They sell CDI, Harken and Schaeffer and I have found them helpful to talk to.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/02/2008 15:04:04

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 15:01:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 The Schaeffer could not be installed solo either. The luff track came in a round bundle and was wicked to straighten. I think any of these is a two person job.

Another place to call is catalinadirect. They sell CDI, Harken and Schaeffer and I have found them helpful to talk to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes it would appear that for a solo installation I'll have to go with a unit which has an aluminum foil with a polymer liner of some sort or the one that uses polymer bushings around the forestay....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 15:02:21

I think Frank's advice is excellent. Catalina can buy whatever they want, always seems to equip their products with quality hardware, and stands behind them. I'd be hesitant to advise you against what your local "experts" recommend, although Harken is probably overkill. Racers like it for the double-slotted foil and other esoteric things... If I were shopping again, I might look hard at Furlex--I like the way its spool works. My Hood was fine, but nothing special. Most of the CDIs in this group were factory installed on C-250s.

Net: You aren't sailing a J-109.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 15:04:21

I bought the Schaeffer unit for my C22. I paid extra because I liked the idea of using the jib halyard to adjust the genny. Turns out I never used that feature. Also turns out that feature requires a more exacting installation to avoid "halyard wrap."

Our C250 came with the CDI. It is simpler and no chance of halyard wrap. We open the sail and go sailing. If it gets too windy we furl in a bit. If that is what you do then I'd suggest the CDI.

Catalina put some nice gear on our 250 including Lewmar 16STs. I don't think they'd put junk on for a furler. My .02

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/02/2008 15:05:19

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 16:29:23

I, too, don't have a definite answer for you but I do have a thought or two.

1) Ford dealers that sell Fords like to say that Chevy's are crap and vice versa. I'd imagine that if your sail loft sells a different brand, his inclination would be to disparage the one he doesn't sell. Not terribly ethical perhaps but often seen in our culture. Does he really have any DATA that supports his assertion? Probably not or somebody on this forum (and others) would be screaming about it. Is CDI so terrible and only these sailmakers know about it? Hardly. My first thought is that they're just trying to sell their product. That leads me to the next point.

2) Maybe their product is superior. And, maybe they have DATA to support that claim that they can share with you. That doesn't make CDI bad, just, MAYBE, not as good. If CDI is, in fact, a bad product as they have indicated to you, they should be able to point to specific reports of failure, etc., not just generalize. It's kind of like the Timex/Rolex kind of thing. My Timex gets me to work on time every day. I imagine a Rolex would as well. Do you need a Rolex? I don't. Do these guys also want to sell you new Mylar sails every spring?

3) I agree with Randy and Frank. Catalina would be a good source of information. They may be willing to explain their reasoning for choosing CDI. I don't think they'd risk their reputation by installing faulty products. A savings of a couple of hundred bucks over the cost of a $35 - $40,000 new C250 doesn't make much sense.

Edited by - John Russell on 04/02/2008 17:59:38

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2008 : 17:56:27

CDI's website displays a full color picture of a C250 under sail.

CDI lists quite a few well known sail lofts under the heading 'authorized dealers' I'd be inclined to talk to them and get their opinions.

Last spring I helped step two masts on sailboats with CDI furlers, both owners were quite happy with them at year end.
Another sailing friend has a Hood Furler and he does not like that he cannot partially furl his sail. He has a 150 on his furler and has had to retire on several very windy days. The CDI guys had no problems.
The guy who sold me my new genoa sails a C250 with CDI furler.

I stuck with hank-on because I'm a real man, and a real sailor. this is your last chance to remain in this august group.

Edited by - on

brrit
1st Mate

Members Avatar

80 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 07:23:54

I've only owned my boat for a year now, but I'm using a CDI furler with no troubles whatsoever. With that said, I agree with John... The Harken or Schaeffer is probably a better furler, but the CDI works well for my needs. If I was racing competitively and/or on blue water, I'd probably spring for a different furler.

Just my two cents...

Edited by - on

kaferhaus
1st Mate

Members Avatar

40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 07:40:07

Thanks guys, great information as usual.

I'll be contacting some of CDI's dealers by phone today and see what they suggest.

If the CDI will do what I need and I can find a way to install it (or straighten it.....)without a bunch of help then that's the way I'll go.

If not, I'll spring for the extra money and get one I can install myself.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 08:08:01

My tuppense:
The only furler I have ever used is the one on our boat JD (C250WB 2005) and that is a CDI.
I have raised the mast dozens of times (we raise it every trip.)
I hoist the jib every trip and lower it upon return (we stow the jib in it's bag when trailering.. it gets really dirty if you leave it on the furler while trailering!)
I use the furler at least twice a day when sailing, normally several times, and the admiral insists on early reefing if gloom appears on the horizon, so we pull the sail in and let it out again several times each day, it's not a big deal.

Ok, that's our usage, now my critique.
The model we have for JD is probably the smallest (don't know the model #) it has a drum about 5-6" dia. I think it is just a tad small, especially as we only have the 110% jib and the drum is pretty full when the sail is totally unfurled.

The furler luff extrusion needs support when trailering, this forum has some great pics of dealing with that.

The original downhaul simply uses the manufacturers jib halyard to tension via reeving the line between the shackles on top of the drum to the jib tack cringle. I would suggest having a seperate line just for the tack downhaul.

The drum has an opening for the furling line. Ours originally arrived with the opening facing aft, the line runs from the drum to a bullnose eye on the foredeck by the anchor locker then up to the cabin top on the port side. I reccommend rotating the drum so that the line points to the center of the opening in order that it does not chaffe on the sides of the drum when furling in the sail.

Our first retrieval of JD was in Cocoa Beach, on our own in horrible weather. I took the furler off the mast completely and folded it into the largest circle I could manage to store it in the cabin. Then I read the "care" document at home! I quickly removed the furler from the cabin, laid it out on the lawn and it was straight within an hour in the florida sun. Now I leave the furler attached all the time to the mast head.

Tom Potter showed me a neat trick when raising the mast. We now use a carrabena that is attached to the port lifeline aft of the pulpit, when the furling drum is 'free' during raising the mast, I attach the drum to the carrabena so that the drum does not drop over the side or slide about the deck.

I'm sure that if we had another brand of furler there would be a whole bunch of +'s and -'s and trick to handling the functionality of the rig.

At this point in time I'm very happy with the CDI, I'll probably get a larger drum if we grow up to a 135% jib.

Hope that helps.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 08:34:05

One detail... If it's still an option on the CDI (it probably should be standard), get the ball-bearing upgrade.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 10:12:39

The CDI flex furl comes in two packages, of the two the larger coil, 6 foot diameter is the least problematic to straighten, and recommended by CDI as well. Perhaps the lesser sized package is a problem even for them. I'd go for the flex furl but my CDI 3B is working fine since it was installed on my Cat in 1983. Could a person ask for more. Not me.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 10:20:07

I have installed mine alone several times and had help installing some on other boats. It was easy to do but as with most things it takes some forethought and the occasional do-over. It is very easy to do if the stick is down, trickier but no big deal with the stick up.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 10:49:26

I like the caribiner tip. Thanks! We also put a ski cap on the drum when raising and lowering so it doesn't bang into things and cause damage.

We don't use any special support for the furler luff extrusion when trailering. We let the extrusion lay in a wide arc against the port toe rail and stanchions. We tie the extrusion to the stanchions.

Can you buy this ball bearing upgrade kit?? I don't think we have it.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/03/2008 10:50:37

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 11:56:16

Randy: From their site:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ball Bearing Options:
Ball Bearings are not required for the FF1 through the FF6. However, if you expect consistently heavy loading or want the easiest possible furling, the ball bearing is a good option and may be purchased with the system or as a retrofit. (The FF7.0 and 9.0 always come with ball bearings.) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">1.6 BUs

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/03/2008 11:58:24

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 12:27:11

I find the flexible foil to be easy to store and travel with.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2008 : 13:55:01

I recommended a CDI furler to a friend for his 30' C&C Red Wing five years ago. He sails extensively on Lake Superior every year and has not had any trouble with the furler. His only complaint is that the foil is overly large and heavy compared to its competitors. Others might refer to it as "robust".

I would like to get the asymetric spinnaker furler they are now making.........if it ever gets less expensive.

Edited by - aeckhart on 04/03/2008 13:55:39

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.