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Waters Sails

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Headhunter
1st Mate

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74 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/05/2008 : 08:10:46

Waters Sails in Columbia, SC built my mainsail a few years ago...Really great job IMO. I've won more races since than before certainly, but then again you should have seen my old main.

Looking to him to build a new headsail for me...I hear that he build the sails for the past 2/3 Cat 25 National Champs. He's talking about moving the draft back some 25% or so...Something learned from building Cat 22 racing sails. I assume this has been effective for some here?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Doug Riley
Lake Norman, NC
'86 Cat 25 TM FK

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2008 : 13:07:40

Almost everyone in our fleet of C-22's uses Waters sails, as do I, and I like them a lot. Very good in light air, but other brands, such as Gus or North, seem to do a bit better in heavy air. Bartlett sails, in Texas I believe, has also had a good showing in the C-22's. Also, Gus is a lot less expensive than Waters, $795 vs. $1,195 for a mylar 150% genoa for a C-22. I haven't polled either one yet about C-25 sails.

Edited by - on

Headhunter
1st Mate

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74 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 09:04:29

Wanting to revive this question...Am getting serious about getting a new headsail and wanted to check this guy out. Claims he has built the sails for a couple/few of the recent Cat 25 National Champs as well, but says he cannot remember their names (???). He's pretty well known in Cat 22 circles. Has a different philosophy re building a racing sail...He builds extra belly into the headsail for better downwind speed. Since Cat 22's are solid downwind performers, I can see this working but am a bit skeptical about what that would do to a Cat 25 upwind. Any Cat 25's run with his sails and if so, how do they do?

Edited by - Headhunter on 02/13/2009 10:31:37

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 10:09:44

John Bartlette of Bartlette Sails in Austin builds extremely powerful sails. He did a lot of research on mainsails using 2 J22's and comparison sailing. He is more expensive than most but well worth it.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 10:22:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Headhunter
 He's talking about moving the draft back some 25% or so...Something learned from building Cat 22 racing sails. I assume this has been effective for some here?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not familiar with Waters sails, but, based on the description of the design, with the draft moved back 25%, they would apparently be better in light air and off the wind, but as the windspeed increases, I would think you'd begin to die from being overpowered and unable to point with the others. Our national regattas are often (but certainly not always) sailed in lighter air, and in that circumstance, the sails might be an advantage, but in stronger winds, they would seem to be a disadvantage. Personally, I would rather not have sails that are only designed to perform their best in certain conditions. If you get those conditions, you might have an advantage, but if you don't, you might as well sail back to the marina and sip on a Dr. Pepper, because you'll get killed on the race course. I'd rather have sails that perform well generally in all conditions. That way, you'll have a fair chance to win every time you go out to race, if you sail better than the rest.

The America's Cuppers are a good example of boats that are usually designed specifically for the conditions that they expect in the particular sailing venue. If they design for light air and get heavy air, their masts fall over and their hulls break in half. If they design for heavy air, and get light air, the heavy boats are too slow. The boats are only fast in the specific conditions for which they were designed.

Edited by - on

Headhunter
1st Mate

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74 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 10:27:13

My impression is that it is supposed to be a downwind sail...Since I already beat or at least keep up with the rest of the fleet downwind, my concern is upwind, particularly pointing ability. You can go as fast as you like, but if you are going fast in the wrong direction, it doesn't do much good. That's why I'm hoping that one of these Nat't champs he's talking about might post their impressions of that sail shape.

Also...we're talking about the headsail here re discussion of moving the draft back which to me increases the "belly". Can't much flatten this sail with the draft back and increased.

Edited by - Headhunter on 02/13/2009 10:35:20

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 11:35:28

Headhunter,
I don't have the money right now or I would have already paid the "Buy It Now" price to secure it (it's killing me to sit this one out):
There is a Waters 155 genoa for a C25 TR, purportedly new condition, for sale on Ebay right now, about 9 hours left on the auction and 4-5 bidders. So far the reserve price has not been met(my guess at least $800). The "Buy It Now" is $999, about half the new cost and the auction is currently at $473, at 11:37 AM CST. The sail has #3501 decals on it. Anybody know who owns/owned C25 #3501?
The story in the listing is that the original owner hoisted it once to make sure it fit, but had never actually flown it.
Anyway, you might want to check it out.

Edited 2/13/09 - The reserve was not met so the sail did not sell.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/13/2009 22:47:52

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