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New Engine Recommendations?

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Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/13/2008 : 19:24:49

My 2003 Honda 9.9 has siezed up and I do not expect the best. It goes the the shop in the morning. I'm expecting an estimate in the 5 BU range. If it goes over I'm looking at a replacement (it is a fully loaded model Remote controls on the binnacle, alternator, key start etc)

Any recommendations on it's successor. I would like to be able to use the existing shifter and throttle cable, as well as the existing holes for the electrical (battery, key, etc)

Greg

Greg Perkins
C-250 WK #668

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 19:53:17

I don't really know but, with all of the investment you have in peripherals, I'd imagine you're committed to another Honda.

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 21:09:13

Thanks. The operative is that I would like to keep as much of the same wireing and controls as possible, but also that if the engine has to be replaced I prefer something other than Honda.

You always hear great things about Honda outboards, but none of these comments come from Honda outboard owners.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 22:05:29

What do you mean by "seized up"? Unless you haven't put oil in for ten years, I'm suspicious... you might not have a big problem. Honda has built more 4-cycle engines than all other makers in the history of the world. That's not to say Tohatsu or Briggs-Stratton doesn't make good engines, too, but let's see what really happened before we jump off the deep end.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/13/2008 22:06:15

suttergold
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 22:44:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Grego5
 Thanks. The operative is that I would like to keep as much of the same wireing and controls as possible, but also that if the engine has to be replaced I prefer something other than Honda.

You always hear great things about Honda outboards, but none of these comments come from Honda outboard owners.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am a Honda outboard owner, my third Honda on my third boat. My Honda's have always been reliable, never any problems. Like anything mechanical, you have to provide regular care and maintenance.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 22:47:06

Love my Honda. Wish it were lighter.

Edited by - on

PDXSteve
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2008 : 23:27:38

I just recently traded out my 01' Yamaha 8 hp for and 06' Honda 9.9 and I love the Honda. I lost the power tilt and the electric start options on the Yamaha but also lost about 40 pounds of weight. Plus the Honda has 12V DC output and i can steer the boat with it (Hard link project in work!). Best thing ive done to my boat in three seasons of ownership!

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 01:32:04

I've got an '03 Honda 9.9 too, and I love it. Always starts right up, even after sitting for months, and has never skipped a beat.

I'd find out what the problem with yours was, then make a decision leaning towards repair.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 08:02:55

Greg,
I had to replace my Honda and chose the Tohatsu 8 with 20" shaft and electric start. I love it, its lighter, far less expensive, has actually been quieter, and gives me plenty of get up and go!
I searched prices on the internet,picked the lowest price, did not include the shipping charge, and then went to a local dealer and told him I what I could get the motor for. (it was 1700 and change two years ago) I asked him if he could give me the motor at that price, said it was not a problem if he couldn't explaining I would just order it. He said no problem and that was that.
I really love this motor. It has been perfect!
Willy

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 09:04:29

Just found my reciept ...Tohatsu MFS8A3EFL...$1699...September of 06.
Looked on internetoutboards.com its now $1775.00 with free shipping.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 09:07:23

I was told that a Tohatsu 8 and 9.8 are the same physical engine with different tuning. Is that true? They seem to be about the same weight. Also, there isn't much difference in price between the two. Why would someone opt for the smaller motor? I'm going to need a motor just as soon as mine 'falls' in the lake. I found this site. The prices look pretty good. I haven't ordered from them and I don't know anything about them.

http://www.tohatsu-outboards.com/tohatsu-8-HP-4-stroke.htm

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 09:58:07

Getting back to your 2003 Honda and the "seizure". I agree with Dave in regards to Honda reliability and need to find out just what caused the seizure. On one hand, it may not be a big issue. On the other hand, could be something major caused by something like not checking the oil in a real long time and level got to low (doubt that since most people would check oil level at least yearly for limited usage) or non-maintenance/non-inspection-replacement of the water pump impeller since outboard was new.

Generally, when I buy a product, I expect reliable performance for many, many years. If I believe I have followed mfrs maintenance instructions and through no fault of my own the unit fails big time...then I would generally give another mfr a shot second time around.

But....I have my own qualms about the water impeller as a potential item that can cause a seizure from overheating. That is because it is one of those items that is on the maintenance checklist sort of....it's like one of those "inspect" items and then replace if it show signs of cracks, etc. I suspect many individuals do not regularly inspect the water impeller and only perhaps check it out if sea crust, etc seems to slow down the water discharge. This remains my bigeest concern. My Honda works great and I use it in freshwater but it is now 2 years old. I may inspect/replace the water impeller end of this season (either myself or bring it into the marina where I bought the Honda). I have the shop manual and could probably do this myself, the 2006 model seems to be a bit complicated in getting to the impeller - seems like quite a bit of steps and gasket/seal replacements. However, I suspect that I am not alone and somje others have not inspected/replaced their water pump impellers. I guess I am curious if the water impeller was ever replaced on Greg's outboard (Honda 2003) and if that was the cause of the seizure ?

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/14/2008 10:03:26

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 13:10:28

Greg,

I've read of two other people on a different forum that had honda 9.9's that locked up. Both were related to a problem with the starter jamming the flywheel. You might want to check that on your motor.

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 13:15:15

I do understand to make sure it is not something simple. The engine goes in for an oil change and lube annually (that is what was on the agenda when I could not start it). It normally goes out once a week (minimum once a month). The oil has never been low, and normally looks new when changed. The impeller has not been changed but water flows fine, not heat alarms or anything like that, just wne to start it and it was siezed.

Just talking with folks on my dock and the suggestion there is if it has to be replaced go somewhere other than Honda (these owners have replaced Honda's with Honda's and ended up buying Merc's, Tohatsu, or Suzuki in the end (No happy Honda Owners here)). My thought is if it is going to cost over about $700 to buy a replacement that will last 3 years till I move up.

Greg

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 13:41:53

I bought a Tohatsu for my C22 on onlineoutboards.com Very good prices and shipping. They also offer a further discount to Association members if you go that route.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 17:33:21

I also bought from onlineoutboards.com, but mine was a 9.8 Nissan elec. start with 25" shaft. I would like to have bought the 8 hp unit, but couldn't get it with both 25" shaft and elec. start. Anyway, it's a huge improvement over the '92 Suzuki 2-stroke that came with the boat, and only 5 lb. heavier. I think the price was about $1,855.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2008 : 21:10:14

Greg,

Your circumstances sound exactly like the two people I was referring to in my post above. The Honda 9.9 ran fine when they last used it and when they came back to use it the next time the motor was locked up. As I stated above it was an issue with the electric starter jamming the flywheel. The repair was to remove the three or four bolts holding the starter in place, freeing the starter from the flywheel, then remounting the starter and retightening the bolts.

Edited by - GaryB on 04/14/2008 21:10:50

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 14:14:02

I'd interested to learn what caused your problem, so I might try to avoid whatever it is on my 2003 Honda 9.9. Could you keep us updated?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 14:50:40

Who is it that had mud daubers get into the timing belt on a Honda...?? I vaguely recall it freezing up.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2008 : 15:57:03

Here's the link to the mud daubers thread --->>> http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16358&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=Mud,Daubers

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 14:23:27

This may sound really obvious, and I appologize if it might offend, but make sure the engine is not in gear before you pull the cord or turn the key. My Merc has a cam that engages and locks the flyweel if the engine is in gear and not running. I have nearly pulled my shoulder out a few times trying to pull start it.

Paul

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2008 : 15:38:38

Paul, not offending me. Cant tell you how many times I tried to start the motor and nothing happened. Thought I might have a dead battery-I have electric start- always its having it in gear.
And I usually put in neutral after I shut her down and replace the kill switch. And I have a Honda, its a very reliable motor. I also have a Tohatsu for my dinghy which I am very happy with.
Steve A

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2008 : 20:16:14

Greg,

I aske dmy friend what they found with his Honda 9.9 when it locked up.

Here's his response

The starter drive: the bendix gear was locking up in the flywheel. I just got it back from the dealer, who replaced the entire starter (under warranty), so I'm hoping that problem is solved. It happened twice last season, so the dealer recommended replacement (after I called him out to the boat twice to fix it -- though after the first time I knew how -- heh, heh).

Edited by - GaryB on 04/18/2008 20:16:40

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2008 : 04:20:33

We had a 2007 Honda 5hp (4-cycle) on our C-18, and it was wonderful: quiet, reliable, easy to use, and economical. So...

We were all set to install a new Honda 9.9hp 25" shaft (w/ elec start and power tilt) on our new C-250, but a Honda+Yamaha dealer told me that the Yamahas outsell Hondas by something like 10:1 in his shop.

He also told me that Yamahas are outselling Hondas in general.

He implied that the lower-end transmission is more rugged on the Yamaha, and that the Yamaha was a little lighter than the Honda. He may have suggested that the FNR control was a little easier to use on the Yamaha, but my memory is a little fuzzy.

He was offering the Yamaha at about $2,800 and the Honda at about $3,000 even, as I recall.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 09:45:07

yup...buy a Toahatsu!

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2008 : 10:37:56

The Engine has been in the shop for a week and they have not had a chance to look at it, they only work on Honda and are pretty backed up. This leads me to believe Honda is not as good as they think they are. After talking wiht the tech for about an hour he was leaning on an issue with the lower end we'll see when he gets to it. I do know that it is not the flywheelstarterendix issue or an issue with being in gear.

I'll keep you posted.

Greg

Edited by - on

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