Association Forum - Mast Raising

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mast Raising

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

knightwind
Navigator

Member Avatar

Canada
114 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/30/2008 : 08:30:42

So my first sailboat is going in tomorrow.
The marina said they'll launch it but the MOL has said that they can't raise masts. The manual says it can be lifted with the mast raised and the backstay undone. So it looks like the PO and I will raise the mast ourselves.

Any pointers or important things to know?
Somebody mentioned some mast-raising-videos posted recently.
Please direct me to these.

Thanks,
Pete

Peter Keddie
Turkey Point, ON
79 Catalina 25 Fixed Keel #1050

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 09:09:45

Here you go. You will at least need an A-frame and block for the stem fitting.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ

Sorry, I have not been able to record part3 yet.

Edited by - Davy J on 04/30/2008 09:18:21

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 09:41:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 ...You will at least need an A-frame and block for the stem fitting...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and about two more people (the first time) and a paid-up yacht policy.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/30/2008 09:56:26

knightwind
Navigator

Members Avatar

Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:21:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 ...You will at least need an A-frame and block for the stem fitting...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and about two more people (the first time) and a paid-up yacht policy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Deep sigh...An A-frame?!?!? @#$%!!! I haven't looked at the videos yet but I thought the mast "hinged up". Yet another obstacle.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:26:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The manual says it can be lifted with the mast raised and the backstay undone.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

All the stays and shrouds should be connected before raising the mast!! They need to be in a loose state, but they need to be attached.

Two people should be able to handle the job. My wife helped me the first time I raised the mast. Keep an eye on the shrouds so they do not get hung up on anything. Attach the jib halyard to the pulpit before raising the mast so that it can be used as a security device. Have someone haul it in as the mast goes up.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:30:18

You can construct the A-frame in about 30 minutes.
you will need some conduit, a few nuts, bolts, eyebolt.
Hacksaw, vice, hammer. Fairly simple.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:50:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My wife helped me the first time I raised the mast.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now thats doggone funny

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 10:59:32

It does "hinge up". And I don't think you can connect "all" stays in advance--if raising from the stern, the forestay (obviously) and forward lower shrouds are connected after it's up (in that order). I'm suggesting two more people to take care of unexpected things like shrouds or turnbuckles catching, and making the transition from lifting from the cockpit to lifting on the cabintop. After you've done it, you can decide on downsizing the staff.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:08:09

With my method, all the stays are connected, the forward lower stays are connected to the A-frame. This prevents the mast from swaying side to side.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:29:29

If you have the option of raising the mast prior to launch - take advantage of this and get the mast up ASAP - it is much easier to raise on the hard.
AND, are you planning to sail Inner Bay?

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

Members Avatar

Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:50:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 If you have the option of raising the mast prior to launch - take advantage of this and get the mast up ASAP - it is much easier to raise on the hard.
AND, are you planning to sail Inner Bay?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This whole "by the MOL says we can't put up your mast" and "by the way you need an A-frame to put up the mast" is starting to frustrate me. I'm hoping the PO knows what he's doing and we can put the mast up while its on the flatbed (prior to lifting into the water) and without a #@$!@#$ a-frame.

I'm used to a 16' flatbottom fishing boat with a 70hp...and have dreamed of sailing a "big" boat all my life...Now I find myself starting to worry about all the little BS things surfacing and worry that this is going to become much less-of-a dream come true.

I expect to tool around in the inner bay if the water gets too rough past the sand bar....as it often does...I'd have to keep a much closer eye on water depth in the inner bay though. Do the depth sensors on sailboats still work well when you're moving? (Didn't on the fishing boat. The main channel's around 11 feet but there's a lot of shallow spots. I like the location of Turkey Point Marina so I can go straight/left into deep water or right into the shallower/calmer inner bay.

In an email yesterday someone mentioned a hazard of getting blown over when a wave hits you broadside. I would imagine this risk exists anytime your boat is on a beam reach...so I would imagine a wise skipper would avoid this point of sail in high winds and large waves...correct?

Regards,
Peter

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 11:52:54

For Davy J - your contribution is super. Thanks for the work and sharing it.

Fairwinds, Dave Otey
Lake St Clair MI

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3477 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 12:18:25

Sailing really is a dream come true. I've sailed over 30 years and I'm still having fun, learning on each sail and still having to be real careful. I'm now lake sailing on Lanier with 15ft below normal pool and a rock bottom. None of the experience I've gained are easy to put into words, which is why it is interesting to read, but easily misread. Have fun and just find someone to help show you the ropes. Most sailors are glad to help as they get to re-live their first experiences.

We raised the mast this year with 2 men on the mast and one on the halyard. Headstays loose and connected.

Friend of mine lowers and raises with halyards from sailboats on either side of him on his mast to assist.

Easy to write about but "you had to be there" to see the specifics.

Lots of ways to do things, and often people are around to help.

Enjoy, but don't expect a quick posting to cover all the details.

Just some pointing in the right direction... I hope!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 12:29:48

Thanks Dave Otey.

Pete, don't get frustrated. Sailing is not as "turnkey" as powerboating. But at the end of the day, you get to realize that your efforts are what moved you all day long.

Also just be glad you only have to raise the mast once. I have to do it every time I take the boat out!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In an email yesterday someone mentioned a hazard of getting blown over when a wave hits you broadside. I would imagine this risk exists anytime your boat is on a beam reach...so I would imagine a wise skipper would avoid this point of sail in high winds and large waves...correct?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

At this point you will reef the mainsail. And ease the mainsheet when needed.

Edited by - on

clayC
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 12:37:30

Tell me a bit more about the forward lowers. Where are they connected to the A frame?

Clay C

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 13:01:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Tell me a bit more about the forward lowers. Where are they connected to the A frame?

Clay C<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In part 2, you will see at the end of the a-frame a short piece of metal, it's about 3-4" long. Once the forward lowers are removed from the chainplate, they get connected to it. they will be fairly loose at this point, but as the mast comes down they become tighter. At about 45 degrees, they prevent the mast from swaying side to side. The measurement is critical, but I am not home right now to measure them.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 13:07:31

Peter,

Relax. It will all work out. Sailing is fundamentally a simple pastime. There are things to learn just like any other. Some of the things are more difficult than others but all are doable by just about anybody that can spell sailboat. Once you learn those things, they will become second nature.

One has to assume that the PO knows how to put up the mast. Let him lead you through it. The A-frame is a safety device that is used to provide leverage for lifting the weight of the mast particularly through the first phases of the lift when the mast is at its heaviest. Some people use a gin pole that works similarly. The advantage of the A-frame is that it provides more lateral stability during the lift. A stick that is roughly 30' long (that's about 10 metres for our friends north of the border

) and only 15-20 centimetres (5"-6")in diameter is inherently unstable when standing on end. That's why we have stays and shrouds. We need that same lateral support during the lifting process but the shrouds and stays can't provide it due to their fixed length. Hence the need for some intermediate device -- the A-frame and lines are one such device.

Can it be done without an A-frame or ginpole? Sure, I imagine it can. Just not as safely and it will require a lot more physical exertion on the part of the lifters. A whole lot more! The danger is that while the moment of greatest effort is brief, that's when the potential for catastrophic failure is at its greatest. And I do mean catastrophic. If you get the mast up half-way and it should fall, the risk to the mast, the boat and anyone standing under the mast is pretty significant. The good news is since your wet slipping the boat, you'll only need to raise and lower the mast once per season.

As far as the depth gauge is concerned, it will work as well as it will work. It's not a sailboat/powerboat thing. Although, at 5 knots it might be more helpful a tool than at 30 knots. Remember that it is looking down, not forward. A set of charts for your area would be a good thing.

Monohull sailboats, when sailing at their best efficiency, heel to leeward. That will be a sensation that you will have to get used to. I mention that only because of your concern over getting knocked down. Understand that knock-down is clearly possible. However, it is not a likely occurrence. It takes a lot of wind (and sometimes wave)energy. In your early experiences, it's far more likely that you will never leave the slip in the conditions that might cause you to be knocked down. Yes, you could make an error that might result in knockdown but, it's not likely. Just don't tie the boom to the aft stay pigtail if your boat is so equipped. That makes it darn hard to dump wind.

Speaking of dumping wind. Did you know that you can stop your boat by simply releasing the mainsheet and jib sheet and letting go of the tiller? It will cause the boat to head into the wind and stop. That's not always the best thing to do but if you feel absolutely overwhelmed by the circumstance you find yourself in, let go! The boat will stop.

Yes, a beam reach with big waves on the beam can contribute to the conditions that might lead to knock down. Yes, the prudent skipper will maintain a point of sail that is safest for the conditions.

Again, Peter, relax. It'll all be just fine. Bob Bitchin said it best: "The difference between an ordeal and an adventure is attitude."

Edited by - John Russell on 04/30/2008 13:24:54

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 13:31:54

If PO is going to be there, you don't have anything to worry about.
Will he go sailing with you for an hour?

Edited by - on

Oksky
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Canada
40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 14:37:42

Don't worry about it. My girlfriend and I, with the information we got from this forum, had the mast up on ours in an hour the first time, about a month ago. And this from someone that hardly knew what a sailboat looked like before we bought it. There is alot of information in prior posts with pictures and diagrams. It ain't rocket science,

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

Members Avatar

Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 14:42:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 If PO is going to be there, you don't have anything to worry about.
Will he go sailing with you for an hour?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I hope he will...When I asked if he would he kinda went "ummmmmmaybe"
Thursday's supposed to be cold and rainy so that might stop us.

Question. What if it was raining? When returning to port with wet sails, do you have to dry them before folding and bagging them? I'm not sure if there's a boom sail cover included...if so would you enclose a wet mainsail in one...if not I assume I have to remove, fold, and bag the mainsail after each outing...same question...what if its wet?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 18:05:26

Peter, while part of the work - and joy - of owning a sailboat is the ritual of setting up and taking down various components each time you go out, you will not have to remove the sails even if they are wet. Just don't let them sit for days on end that way. I bet your new boat has a sail cover. The mast raising issue is one we all have to face - just do your homework and have a few friends over for the first time.

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:01:17

Peter,
Being a new owner and keeping it on a trailer, I second the motion. The first time, have all the help you can, not because you need it but because it will make you feel better. After a couple times you will be raising the mast with one helper, in front of crowds without hardly thinking about it. I use a mast crutch and a block and tackle on the forstay and the whole process of getting seaworthy takes perhaps 30 minutes.

Ed

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:20:02

Davy J has a very sophisticated and well-practiced method that he apparently uses frequently--not just for launching, but for passing under bridges. I'm impressed! But others have made the case that for a once-a-season raising (and one corresponding lowering), a little manpower and a less sophisticated system can do it just fine. Let's see what your PO has up his sleeve, and then go from there. If he doesn't know what it takes and how to do it, presumably he would have told you.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:56:40

Pete,

I remember going through the process of learning about stepping the mast; raise and lower. The boat I bought had an A frame, but the center top section of the A frame had a sleeve that slid on a 1 inch square tube, the bottom of the tube forked, as if to surround the base of the mast. >-----0 one end had a fork:the other an eye for tying the sheet and hooking the forestay.

I used this system with the help of a friend. My friend used the main sheet and blocks from the bow location while I walked the mast up or down. Everything went well - - we were on the trailer on land for this task.

After becoming comfortable with using the A frame, I felt confident that I could do the same task on the trailer without the A frame. My friend used the sheet and blocks to raise and lower the mast while I walked the mast. I wouldn't do this task while the boat was in the water, but on land it went well.

The idea of being able to step the mast by myself is a challenge may someday take on. At this time, I only need to set up and take down per season.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 21:06:50

Pete,
Many of us face a few simple realities: so much to learn, limited time and bank accounts, and far too short a sailing season. That said, don't sweat the small stuff. This forum as you have discovered is a great learning resource, adapt ideas to fit your needs, time and budget and prioritize your time to what's important to you. When you first buy a boat, the drive to want to make her shine, upgrade or add all kinds of widgets and toys is high. In actuality, what is likely to be most important that first season, is to learn how she handles under sail - and once you are hooked, you begin to view other tasks, such as cosmetics (e.g. wood trim) etc. a bit differently. Safety obviously is first priority as are a few cosmetics for the Admiral, but after that, nearly everyone on this forum has to ask themselves every visit to their boat: "do I work on the boat or go sailing?" So...don't let yourself get overwhelmed. These are great boats.

With regard raising the mast - DaveJ's system is a well evolved approach that fits his needs very well. You should learn from his experience, but others get by using an A-frame made from 2x4's or simply a couple of willing helpers with a bit of muscle. The first time requires patience and care - think it through and go slow the first time - but once you've done it, it gets easier thereafter. Here's a simpler approach from the Technical Tips section: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/bearsad1.asp

Fair winds and great sailing!

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

Members Avatar

Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2008 : 22:01:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glivs
 Pete,
Many of us face a few simple realities: so much to learn, limited time and bank accounts, and far too short a sailing season. That said, don't sweat the small stuff. This forum as you have discovered is a great learning resource, adapt ideas to fit your needs, time and budget and prioritize your time to what's important to you. When you first buy a boat, the drive to want to make her shine, upgrade or add all kinds of widgets and toys is high. In actuality, what is likely to be most important that first season, is to learn how she handles under sail - and once you are hooked, you begin to view other tasks, such as cosmetics (e.g. wood trim) etc. a bit differently. Safety obviously is first priority as are a few cosmetics for the Admiral, but after that, nearly everyone on this forum has to ask themselves every visit to their boat: "do I work on the boat or go sailing?" So...don't let yourself get overwhelmed. These are great boats.

With regard raising the mast - DaveJ's system is a well evolved approach that fits his needs very well. You should learn from his experience, but others get by using an A-frame made from 2x4's or simply a couple of willing helpers with a bit of muscle. The first time requires patience and care - think it through and go slow the first time - but once you've done it, it gets easier thereafter. Here's a simpler approach from the Technical Tips section: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/bearsad1.asp

Fair winds and great sailing!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well that was very well said. Thanks for taking the time to type it all. My apologies to Dave and you lads for using the shift key earlier. I understand now that Dave's custom A-frame would be great when you have to lower/raise you mast to go under a bridge, wire, branch etc. Should be an interesting day tomorrow.
Since I've got you...a question came up regarding anchoring...
For a long term anchor...do you tie the anchor rope to the eye on the prow of the boat? The towing eye I think? or to one or both of the nearby mooring cleats?

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.