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really nice boat !

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Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/03/2008 : 18:37:37

Had to tell someone that has interest in the subject...

WE GOT OWER BOAT AND WENT TO SAIL TODAY!!!

We hit 6.5 knots and it was windy whit about ... 15- 20 knot winds
I used only the furling genoa ( 135 % ) and it went pretty smooth

I definatly like this boat , kids liked it too ( admiral was impress .. a good thing for me !

)

something is probably wrong whit the centerboard raising system , its really hard to raised the board... it look's like the rope isnt going the right way in those blocks , il look into it tomorow.

It took us like 2.5 hour to get in the water ...too long , but we got it out in 1 hour , I guess we are improving...

I will also have to improve the suspension on my ford crown victoria ... lol , poor thing has its rear end way too low

I am feeling really good ... and its my birtday tomorow ( 4 may )

Sebas, quebec ,proud owner of 250wb 2007 hull #926 ...

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2008 : 19:04:15

Congratulations!

You're really pulling that thing with a Crown Vic?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2008 : 19:42:23

Happy Birthday, Sebastien!

Sounds like you had a fantastic sail.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2008 : 22:17:25

Wow! Another Canadian. You guys should form an All-Canadian Fleet. You know, you don't have to be on the same body of water to form a fleet. Congratulations on your new C250. One of the great enjoyments of being a member of this association is sharing the exuberance of new owners.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2008 : 23:12:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 Wow! Another Canadian.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Plutot canadien francais, colline de bines!

Translated, that means: It is a complex political question, and Association Forum rules forbid politicking, you remember.

Salut, mon gars, et bienvenu au Forum. C'est difficile pour les blocs, t'sais?

Translated, that means: Hi, my friend, and welcome to the Forum. You will enjoy the sailing comeraderie here.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2008 : 11:54:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Silar_Phas
 ...I will also have to improve the suspension on my ford crown victoria ... lol , poor thing has its rear end way too low...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I guess! Towing capacity is 2000 lbs--less than half of your rig. I hope you're not going to far or fast, and that your ramp isn't too steep.

Congrats on your new yacht!

Edited by - on

Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2008 : 21:16:03

towing capacity is 2000 lbs ?? ...

I dont think so , my hynday elantra has a towing capacity of 2000 lbs and it has a 2 liter engine . My crown vic has a 4.6 liter and from the manufacturer book it say 5000 lbs whit proper hitch , witch i did install , the thing is something is broken on the passenger rear side
(i think so since it is lower on this side...) and to help it ill go install some suspension "aid" .

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2008 : 22:35:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Silar_Phas
 towing capacity is 2000 lbs ?? ...

I dont think so , my hynday elantra has a towing capacity of 2000 lbs and it has a 2 liter engine . My crown vic has a 4.6 liter and from the manufacturer book it say 5000 lbs whit proper hitch , witch i did install , the thing is something is broken on the passenger rear side
(i think so since it is lower on this side...) and to help it ill go install some suspension "aid" .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You really need to look a little harder at your owner's manual. I think what you're reading is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating or GVWR. That number INCLUDES the weight of your Crown Victoria which is around 4000 pounds. It is potentially VERY DANGEROUS to tow a boat of 4000++ pounds with your sedan.

[url="http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_crown_victoria_standard-specs/?p=all"]Check this website[/url]. It says that the maximum towing capacity is 1500 pounds.

You might be very fortunate and never have a problem. However, you're taking a huge risk with your boat, your car and your lives.

This may be something that is getting lost in the translation.

Edited by - on

Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2008 : 23:16:04

Well thx for your concern...

Edited by - Silar_Phas on 05/04/2008 23:42:59

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 07:00:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Silar_Phas
 Well thx for your concern...

but I did look for the towing capacity...
and whit a class 1 hitch it is 2000 lbs ( thats a bumper attach hitch) but whit a class 3 hitch ( which is way stronger and bolt on frame and distribute weight and was install by a competent person ), it goes to 5000 lbs ( and I got the owner s book in my hand as I write this and it is written in english .)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your right! From 1992-1994 Ford made a Crown Vic with that capacity to tow. Ford rated it at 5000 lb. those years. From 95 to I believe 2000 it fell to 2500 lb.

I have towed using a lot of different vehicles and own 2 trailers and a 250 WK so I have a bit of experience. Towing at the maximum weight of a vehicle always has it's problems. It shows up in stability and stopping ability. I currently am using a Ford 150 4x4 with E rated tires (up to 90 lb. of air). The 250 WK is in the middle range of the fords tow capacity. It is very safe. Our boats weight 4200 lb. (in some manuals) but you also have to include the trailer at probably 1500 lb. You are over your cars limit already. Load the boat with essentials for a days sail and you might add another 300 lb.

Your now at 6000 lb. Unless you live a mile or two from your favorite sailing spot, I got to tell you, I would be concerned for you and your family. It has nothing to do with how well it goes down the road, but all about what happens when you drop a trailer wheel over the side of the pavement, or another vehicle pulls out in front of you and you need to stop quickly.

I don't mean to lecture and I welcome you to our forum with open arms, but we do have a responsibility for others who read these threads to insure they get the best information possible, from all sides.

You surely have a friend who you could borrow a truck from or even consider a seasonal location at a mooring or a dock, so you could still enjoy the boat all season in safety. Offer the guy with the truck some wonderful days of sailing on your new boat!

Good luck to you.

Edited by - Turk on 05/05/2008 07:02:04

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 07:08:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Silar_Phas
 Well thx for your concern...

Life is full of solutions...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I love this approach. Must remember that quote.

I am sure you know what GVWR is (combined vehicle/trailer weight) and the frontage you can tow, and so on so I will leave it to you to figure out what is right for you. When you go to get the suspension repaired, you might want to ask the mechanic if there is any way to beef up the towing capacity anyway. It never hurts to have the car a little stronger than it needs to be. I know a guy who tows boats back and forth to Florida behind a Jaguar, so towing with a car isn't completely out of the question - but then the Jag has a v-12.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 09:29:13

Well since I started this unexpected assault (with erroneous information from the web), I'll apologize and just add that we only want you to be safe. I've seen what can happen with an undersized tow vehicle (when a Jeep Cherokee ended up in a field, luckily) and became a believer right there. One of our C-250 members also had a big scare a few years back--I don't remember it well enough to recount it.

Anyway, welcome, and the best of luck with your yacht!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 10:54:34

For what it is worth we tow our C250WK with a GMC Yukon SUV. It is rated to tow 5700lbs. In my opinion is it barely adequate for the job and we intend to replace it with a pickup truck (long wheelbase) rated for at least 10,000lbs. FYI we use a heavy duty Equalizer hitch setup as well.

We drove our C250 back from Iowa (2,000 miles) and there were times in the cross-winds that I was very nervous. Last year coming back from the San Juans (350 miles each way) one of the trailer tires developed a grapefruit sized bulge. This is a tire that looked just great but apparently the sidewalls were weak. A blowout at 55 MPH would have really taxed our SUV's abilities to control the situation. I replaced all four tires.

Please, be very careful.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 19:18:19

if you play a blues brothers cd while your towing that might help !

I love that movie

Edited by - on

Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 19:47:19

For your info ...

Towing Weight Definitions

Manufacturers give their vehicle tow ratings in various ways:

* GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is the total allowable weight of a fully equipped vehicle and includes the weight of the driver, passengers, cargo, all fluids, accessories and the tongue weight of the trailer.

* GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the maximum allowed weight and includes a fully loaded tow vehicle with driver, passengers plus a fully loaded trailer.

* GTWR (Gross Trailer Weight Rating) is the maximum trailer weight including trailer plus the cargo inside.

* GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) is the maximum weight each axle is designed to carry safely. It includes the entire weight of the vehicle, occupants, cargo, trailer tongue weight and so forth, but now distributed between front and rear axles.

* Tongue Weight is the additional weight the trailer adds to total weight of the tow vehicle.

( http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.php/news/main/3657/event=view )

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 20:37:17

I'm just really amazed that any sedan has enough strength for this kind of load. My boat is stored throughout the winter 60 miles from my home because my truck doesn't have what it takes to pull it.

So let me get this straight. You have 5000 lbs of trailer and boat being pulled by a 3000 pound car for a total Gross Combined Weight of around 8000 pounds. (I'm guessing at the weight of the car.) That 8000 pounds is within the safety limits set by the manufacturer of the car?

All I can say is WOW and Bon Chance!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 21:25:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...being pulled by a 3000 pound car... (I'm guessing at the weight of the car.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ummm, John... a Crown Vic... I think your about a grand short (plus the load in the car).

Edited by - on

Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 21:29:47

Since the trailer has its own brakes the vehicule that tows it only add the tongue weight to its gvwr .

tractor-trailler (53 feets van tractor-trailler) does tow way much more then its own weight but it can support the weight of the tongue , which is a lot , big time... but still when the tractor ( vehicule that tows) apply brakes , the trailler brakes too so the vehicule doesnt have to "stop" the trailler

off course there a laws that regulate all this and when followed properly , it goes well . Im not racing to the ramp , I do take it easy plus it is close by , but still I am whitin safety limit

My crown vic will last shorter than a pick-up since its transmission is weaker, brake pad are thinner , its suspention is weaker but then again i did paid it a lot less

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 22:32:46

Maybe I missed it above but what is the GCWR for your vehicle? You may technically be under the GVWR but the GCWR also has to be taken into account. The GAWR is very important also. If you exceed the rating there's a good chance that you will break an axle which WILL cause loss of control of your vehicle with a 6000 - 8000 pound boat now driving the car to the scene of the accident. You see it's not one or the other, it's all of the various weight ratings that must be complied with.

Your suspension is most likely broken in the back because you exceeded one of these ratings. Your vehicle is trying to tell you something.

I had a 1988 Crown Vic that I used to pull my 21' Sea Ray. Boat and trailer weighed just over 4000#'s. The car was rated to pull 5000. I can tell you that it pulled the boat just fine until I had to make a panic stop to keep from rear ending someone on the freeway that changed into my lane just as the traffic in front of us came to a sudden stop. If I hadn't left more than 200 feet in front of me I would have killed the young kid and his girlfriend that changed lanes in front of me. The car didn't have the brakes to stop that load. That was the last time I towed my boat with the Crown Vic. I ALWAYS borrowed a friends F250 with a V10 engine.

I will never understand the logic of spending 30K - 40K for a boat (a toy) and then use a $10K - $15K tow vehicle that is not designed to pull the weights required to safely tow these boats. I learned the hard way. Don't be like me.

We can all argue this point forever. Here's the bottom line: Suppose you do have an accident that's caused by a suspension failure or you can't stop in time when someone pulls out in front of you or for any other reason related to towing with an inadequate tow vehicle and you kill someone in another vehicle OR one of your family members. How are you going to feel when you lay down at night to go to sleep? Possibly in jail! Are you going to feel good about yourself? Do you want to face the years of court it will take to clear up this mess? Are you ready to spend time in jail if you're found guilty of negligence?

Not the kind of baoting experience I'm looking for!

I don't mean to come across so cold and I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life or what to do. I'm just trying to point out that several people on this site that have years of experience towing these particular boats over many miles have tried to offer their advice. Please take time to reflect on their advice.

If you're going to tow this boat please consider selling your Crown Vic and buying a new or used 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup setup to haul this weight safely. Your entire boating experience will be more enjoyable!

If I offended you, sorry, I don't want to see someone get killed.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/05/2008 22:41:59

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 22:33:05

Silar_Phas

Good thing the trailer had brakes.

paulj

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2008 : 23:39:53

Silas, we're really glad that you got a C250 and that you are here on the forum. Please don't get bummed by this feedback. Many people have gotten the same responses. I do encourage you to get a better tow rig but until you do take it slow and easy and leave lots of room for other people's errors. Also, Google "Equalizer hitch" and check it out. These hitches help distribute the load and prevent sway. It will be $4-500 well spent and will transfer to any new tow vehicle you get.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 01:58:05

C250 WB 3250lbs

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 06:19:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 C250 WB 3250lbs
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I missed that. Thought he had a WK. That gives him another 1000 lbs less and lower on the trailer. Still not optimum for a tow vehicle, but better than I thought. Years ago there were many people, including my father, that used only cars to tow RV's and campers. Never thought anything about it. We had big cars back then, but I guess the Crown Vic was in that class in the 90's. My WK requires me to use the extension on the trailer. The rear of my truck is always deep in the water to launch. The WB may not require the trailer to go as far down the ramp. I bet that Crown Vic's exhaust is surely bubbling!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 06:36:44

Sebastien,
Congrats on the new boat and getting it in the water, we don't often see that kinda speed down here but it is oh so sweet!

About the keel haul. Yep, it's a beast!
A couple of things.
a) Make sure the line from the cockpit passes 'under' the cone shaped pulley block that is just foreward of the Main sheet block.

c) Make sure the block and tackle is not twisted, it should swivel.

I have just completed a mod to my keel haul system, it included reducing the size of the line, but as the boat is on the trailer, I cannot quote the affect of the new system yet. I have reduced the keel haul line to 1/4" from the recommended 3/8". The keel weighs about 150lb but the entire weight of the keel is not taken by any line, even the vectran line from the keel to the turning ball shares the weight with the keel pivot.

We're two weeks from our next sail. Somehow I think you'll be in the water quicker than us.

Let us know how your next sail goes.

Very much welcome to the forum.

Paul

Edited by - on

Cavitating
1st Mate

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USA
47 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 07:43:23

In many cases, towing capacities with the proper hitch means utilizing a weight distribution hitch that, with very few exeptions is used by boaters because in most instances it will not allow the trailer brakes to work. These hitches increase the towing capacity by better distributing the load on the towing vehicle. They are normally seen on travel trailers.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2008 : 09:16:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Silar_Phas
 Since the trailer has its own brakes the vehicule that tows it only add the tongue weight to its gvwr.

tractor-trailler (53 feets van tractor-trailler) does tow way much more then its own weight but it can support the weight of the tongue , which is a lot , big time... but still when the tractor ( vehicule that tows) apply brakes , the trailler brakes too so the vehicule doesnt have to "stop" the trailler... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Have you seen a tractor-trailer jacknife and take out a couple of cars? I have. Your trailer tires are not adequate to stop that load in a hurry by themselves from highway speeds--just like the big-rigs, if the car brakes more than the trailer, you can jacknife, and if the trailer brakes lock up, you very likely will jacknife. At what speed and how hard? Who knows...

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