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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outhauls and Topping lifts

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knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/11/2008 : 17:13:18

I still need help with this rigging. Which sides of the boom to tie what. Here's some pictures.
End of boom showing two clips one unused.

Toping lift and outhaul connected together (By me because it looked/felt right:

Topping lift tied to forward starboard cleat.

Outhaul clasped to mainsail: Seems like it should be tied to starboard aft cleat...but it runs up the port side of the boom past an unused metal eyelet perpendicular to the boom ( what's this?):

Outhaul running forward through poorly fitting jam-cleat...also notice cheap blue climbing clasp attached to end (Why?):

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Peter Keddie
Turkey Point, ON
79 Catalina 25 Fixed Keel #1050

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2008 : 18:06:09

In the top picture I think the forward shackle would be for your outhaul and the aft shackle for the topping lift. No, they do not get rigged together. It helps to think of their purposes. The sole purpose, for the sake of this discussion, of the topping lift is to keep the boom from whacking you in the head while the sail is down. You pull it tight and the aft end of the boom raises up and out of the way. The outhaul is used to flatten the sail while underway. So, one is used with the sai up and the other with the sail down. Not together.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2008 : 18:32:49

From what I can see, I think you have your topping lift (to hold up the boom) and your reefing rigging mixed together. That block on the side of the boom is for reefing--it has nothing to do with the topping lift. By getting it out of the picture, you'll allow the topping lift to be a straight line from the end of the boom to the top of the mast.

That reefing block turns a line running aft on the boom up to the reefing cringle (an eye on the sail), and then it goes back down to a little eye-strap on the opposite side of the boom, where it is knotted just below the eye-strap. That allows you to reduce sail by pulling that eye down to the boom and doing something similar at the mast. Look in the Manuals section of this site for details on rigging for reefing the main.

I'm sorry I can't describe this better here--I recommend you get an experienced sailor to look at your rig and help you reorganize it. This is generic stuff--not unique to the C-25. Others here might be able to add to my lame attempt. But John's right--the topping lift and the outhaul should be separate and independent. Once you have both set up properly, you pretty much forget them.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/11/2008 20:11:21

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2008 : 21:10:25

A seminal event in a boat owner's life is when he "gets it". Once you understand the goal of hardware you can design and rig yours to meet the nuanced idea you have for your boat. Tying the outhaul and topping lift together shows you don't really understand what they do. If you walk your docks you will see a dozen ways to run an outhaul... all of them Haul The Clew Out to adjust the tension along the foot of the sail. How you do it is very secondary to understanding the need to do it. An adjustable topping lift adjusts where your boom comes to rest when the main is not raised. If you do not want it to hit your cabin then shorten the maximum length of the topping lift. If you never want the boom to fall lower than perpendicular to the mast then shorten the maximum length to that point. You decide what will meet your needs and rig your topping lift to produce that result. Sailing is not a rote event, no one can tell you a magic dozen steps and the order you will take them in every time you sail. Sailing is not concrete sequential, it is abstract random; it is a symphony of orchestrated goals.
As for your boom as it sits. The horn cleat forward on the starboard side is for your aft reefing line. Leave it there and leave it available for the reefing line, you need to make learning to reef a very high priority. The line you have run from the cleat back through the cheek block and up through your topping lift is your reefing line. The eyestrap you asked about, "unused metal eyelet perpendicular to the boom ( what's this?)", is also for your reefing line. Your reefing line goes from the cheekblock, up through a reef cringle in your sail and down the other side and permanently ties to the eyestrap. At your mast you have a horn cleat on one side and another eyestrap on the other side that is also part of your reefing system. It uses a ten foot rope that is tied to the eyestrap, run up through the forward reefing cringle of your sail and down to the horn cleat, it is a two line reefing system.
The horn cleat aft on the starboard side of your boom is for your topping lift. Take a 5 foot piece of line, tie one end to the unused shackle at the end of the boom. Run the piece of line up and through your block at the end of the topping lift. Bring the end down to the horn cleat there on the starboard side of the boom. Up, through, down, cleat. Topping lift... adjust when needed.
The Clam cleat on your port side of the boom is probably intended for your outhaul, personally I would move it aft to approximately the clew of the main so it would be easier to use from the general helm area. Most plastic clam cleats wear after a few years and it would be just as easy to order a new one to mount aft, they also come in aluminum. You want one that captures the line like the one you have.

"climbing clasp" no, carabiner. Take the carabiner off the rope, it serves no purpose. We put knots in the "bitter end" so they cannot pull through the things we run lines through.
"jam cleat" no, clam cleat. There are jam cleats, that is not one of them.

When I taught myself about boats, I ordered catalogs from hardware manufacturers and studied the names of the parts, I then studied advertisements in magazines until I understood everything they were advertising. Harken has a particularly great catalog because they have diagrams of boats that show where the hardware is used. The internet makes all that much easier.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2008 : 21:16:34

Dave, You did a good job, don't put yourself down. John, I liked the sail up/sail down distinction. Frank, excellent descriptions, but I'm going to offer one change to your topping lift setup. From pic #2 move the middle block with the becket to the empty shackle at the very end of the boom (pic #1), tie the 5 ft line Frank suggested to the becket and run it up to the block at the end of your topping lift, then bring it back down to the same block and forward to the cleat near the end of your boom on the starboard side. Pull in that line until the boom is where you want it and secure the line on the cleat. When completed, the purpose of that line will make perfect sense to you. Pics #6, 7, & 8 show your outhaul line correctly attached to the clew of the mainsail and running forward to the cleat on the port side of the boom. It does not need to be disconnected from the mainsail when you lower and stow the sail. If the line doesn't fit in the clam cleat properly, you probably need to change the line size or change the cleat.
Hope that helps.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/11/2008 21:25:42

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 06:24:28

Knightwind,

I suggest you give these a call and order their catalogue. I have never actually bought anything from them, so I can't speak to their service, however their product descriptions, and their instructions are quite good if you can take the time to read through it.

http://www.hollandmarine.com/

If you ever find yourself in the neighbourhood of the QEW and Hwy 427 in Toronto, stop in at Fogh marine. They are mostly a chandlery for dinghy sailors, however they have excellent product knowledge, adn will walk you through the rigging and purpose of all the stuff on your boat. Bear in mind that our boats are not rigged all that different than a dinghy, just the components are a little bigger.

[url="http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=901+Oxford+Street,+Toronto&sll=43.622532,-79.53372&sspn=0.02883,0.05785&ie=UTF8&om=0&ll=43.620046,-79.529858&spn=0.057662,0.1157&z=13"]Map of Fogh Marine[/url] [url="http://www.foghmarine.com/index.asp"]Fogh Marine website[/url]

Edited by - Prospector on 05/12/2008 06:24:52

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2008 : 08:25:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 I'm going to offer one change to your topping lift setup. From pic #2 move the middle block with the becket to the empty shackle at the very end of the boom (pic #1), tie the 5 ft line Frank suggested to the becket and run it up to the block at the end of your topping lift, then bring it back down to the same block and forward to the cleat near the end of your boom on the starboard side. Pull in that line until the boom is where you want it and secure the line on the cleat. When completed, the purpose of that line will make perfect sense to you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Better

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2008 : 12:35:16

Peter

Do you know anyone with sailing experience? It's always easier to have somebody show you. If you haven't already, download a copy of the owners manual from this website. It has some rigging info that might be helpful.

The best advice I can give you, is to find an experienced sailing buddy. Contact a local sailing club for instance. Trying to explain to you how to rig and sail your boat in words will be, in IMHO, a frustrating (for you) experience. Get a little hands on help and you'll have a blast.

Sailing is one of the most fun and rewarding experiences imaginable. But if you don't know exactly what you're doing it can be boring, frustrating and dangerous.

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