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Are there any other mistakes I've missed?

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knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/29/2008 : 11:43:33

So as I was mentioning in a previous post...my mainsheet block came loose from the traveller....and I watched in horror as the loose shackle bounced off my fingers and into Lake Erie...I decided to drop the sails and motor a short way back to the marina. Of course afterwards all kinds of "MacGyver ideas" came to mind....i.e. I shoulda just done this...or coulda just done this...however I decided to motor back.
Those of you with good memories will remember my post about our first time out motoring in 1 meter waves...and how adrenlin-filled the experience was...so I was trying to avoid the rolling broadside waves by heading into the wind and approaching the marina entrance form the side with the intention of turning at the last minute to go in...Those of you with good memories will also recall me complaining about a flacky depth meter system...Can anybody guess where I'm going with this yet?
So as I make my turn...cutting a corner I've never cut before...I hear a sudden noise I'd not heard before either..."Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" goes the keel as it slides into the lake bed. "What was that?" the wife asks...."That was the sound of us running aground dear..."

The first mistake was trying to power over it...The second mistake was trying to get towed over it...I managed to get a guy with a big power boat to pull me back and away...how embarrassing...So here's where we decided the fishfinder/depth meter is gonna have to get bought sooner rather than later.

And here's where I ask for advise. The bottom is quite sandy and I was motoring along at ~2knots and the stoppage was slow as opposed to a big "thunk" so I'm hoping the keel's OK.
Is there anything I should check for? Loose/broken keel bolts etc?
Are there any "tried and true" methods for removing your run-aground self?

Regards,
Pete

Peter Keddie
Turkey Point, ON
79 Catalina 25 Fixed Keel #1050

Edited by - on

BFTEagles
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 12:01:02

I would bet that everything is OK down below. As far as getting off a sandbar, where I sail we have to either back out the way we came, raise the keel, or wait for the tide to come in! And feel lucky you don't have any oyster shoals...those are a great experience...

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 13:01:13

Pete,

When I bought my boat last October the PO was very upfront and admitted he had hit something in Galveston Bay doing about 4-4.5 knots. He said it almost threw one of his passengers off the bow. Instead of stopping, the boat lurched to one side and kept going.

I had the boat surveyed and we pulled it out of the water to pressure wash the bottom and so the surveyor could check out the bottom and keel. All it did was put some almost imperceptible scratches in the bottom paint. I was really surprised.

Unless your boat twisted around a great deal while you were aground I doubt seriously if you have any damage.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/29/2008 13:01:45

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 13:20:03

There are 2 kinds of sailors, those that have run aground and those that will run aground. Some might say there are 3 kinds, the third being those who lie about running aground. Welcome to the club.

At that speed, it's unlikely you did anything terrible. Check the bilge for water.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 13:42:34

I am the second kind of sailor...

FWIW so far we have had to be towed to our slip twice this season due to a flaky outboard. What did you do with your old one Peter? Maybe I could get it running better than what I've got.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 13:49:07

When I run agound, and it happens more times than I'd like, I first try to back up in the direction I came from. If the bottom is soft sand or silty, you might be able to pivot 180 then head back out. I have also used both sails and motor to extricate myself. As the others have said, you probably didn't hurt a thing.

The main thing to be concerned about when running aground is the relatively fragile rudder. Since your fin keel is deeper than the rudder, the keel will generally scrape before your rudder bottoms out. If my rudder were deeper than my keel, I'd probably be on my third rudder by now.

This is what happened to my friend's C25 last season after he found the granite boulder that lives on the edge of the channel going into our marina.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/29/2008 13:54:56

Cbucki1
1st Mate

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USA
47 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 14:04:26

Ouch - that keel looks nasty!
Was he able to repair it?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 14:14:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cbucki1
 Ouch - that keel looks nasty!
Was he able to repair it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, he repaired it himself and it came out looking pretty good.

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 14:34:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 I am the second kind of sailor...

FWIW so far we have had to be towed to our slip twice this season due to a flaky outboard. What did you do with your old one Peter? Maybe I could get it running better than what I've got.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The old Merc motor developed a bad stator 2 days after I bought it....according to a "motor-guy" near London. The 96 Evinrude 9.9 we got from him is working well. Dude says it'll cost him $450 to fix the motor he gave us a $150 trade in for...you know, the one I paid $600 for !!!
This guy sells allot of motors on kijiji...and I recommend him.

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 14:35:38

I thought about trying to toss my anchor out and pull the boat free with it...any comments?

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 14:36:40

What about swinging out on one of the sheets to pull the mast and boat over? Stupid risk?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 15:59:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by knightwind
 I thought about trying to toss my anchor out and pull the boat free with it...any comments?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Tossing it out probably wouldn't help much since you probably can't throw it far enough. But, getting in the dink and rowing it out and setting it properly could work.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by knightwind
 What about swinging out on one of the sheets to pull the mast and boat over? Stupid risk?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I've read descriptions of getting the boat heeled over so that it floats again. If you're hanging to the lee from a halyard, whose going to maneuver the boat to deeper water while you have it heeled?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2008 : 18:32:20

Getting everyone on the low rail can help a little, and backwinding the sails can too. Backwinding the jib will heel the boat and might pivot you away, and backwinding the main (alone) will also create some heel and possibly push you backwards.

Don, I saw another C-25 with similar damage--that's the glass-encased lead keel like I had--the "glass" is like an asbestos furnace covering--apparently intended to replicate the size and shape of the iron keel around the smaller, denser lead one. Peter, your solid cast iron keel won't look like that--it may be scuffed a little.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/29/2008 18:32:43

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 08:05:06

<<< Are there any "tried and true" methods for removing your run-aground self? >>>

Avoid shark bite….

Last year I was in my power boat (Stamas 21 foot / 225 outboard) in Apalachicola bay. I ran aground slow. The bay is huge, shallow with a sandy bottom. This is a relatively new boat to me (10 years) and I wanted to see how it would behave aground so I powered up to force the boat on the sandbar. It was evening, low tide with calm weather so I thought I would spend the night aground. The boat weighs 2 tons, with a straight keel and deadrise bow. The bow pushed into the sand and would not move up over it. After quite an attempt to go forward I could easily power off in reverse. So this boat will not slide up on anything.

Several years back I ran aground slowly in a 30 foot Catalina in St. Andrews bay (Panama City Beach, Fla.) and I was in muddy sand. We waited 20 minutes on the incoming tide and powered off in reverse. If I had come in that day on an outgoing tide I’d have stayed in the channel rather than crossing the bay.

Now I am sailing a Catalina 25 in Lake Lanier with a water level that was 18 feet below normal level, now it is still 15 feet low. The bottom is mostly hard red clay, sand in some places and rock ridges and outcroppings. I don’t have a depth gauge on this boat. My bottom is most often sloped, and most of my hazards are well marked. I’ve been out on this lake for over 25 years and I still review the charts on my laptop weekly. I’ve scuba dived the bottom on several of the coves I anchor in just to get the bottom clearly in my mind. If I approach the shore I pull out the chart and study it. I download the GPS from trips and study the locations on the chart and try to correlate in my mind where I was on the chart and what I remember. If I run hard aground on rocks it will not be good. I don’t have any experience with how this boat behaves aground.

I have a great respect for the bottom and I try my best to understand it. I try to snorkel and look at it to try to make it become real. Study your charts, learn to read charts, make the chart tell you where you are. Stay situational aware of your location and the bottom below you. Try not to run aground. Avoid shark bite.

I would love the hear others tell me of their running aground to get an idea of how the boat behaves in different situations. I think I’ll start a thread….or research the others first.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 08:51:09

A fin keel draws 4', get off the boat and push.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 09:20:41

>"MacGyver ideas" came to mind"

Over time, most of us have accumulated 'possibles' boxes that we keep onboard... collections of bits and pieces you might need if something goes wrong (like a shackle coming off).

Shackles (variety.. headsail, jib, other rigging)
Spare sail slugs
Turnbuckle Bodies and ends
Assortment of pins, retaining clips (etc)
Variety of common sized stainless nuts and bolts, screws. (I have enough to stock a small hardware store)
Fuses, Extra nav light bulbs.
Spare sparkplugs
Silicone spray
WD 40
Engine oil (I have a 4 stroke)
Rigging tape
Rigging wire (aka seizing wire to secure rigging)
Ductape, electrical tape
Assortment of plastic wire ties (tie-wraps)

Toolbox has:
A couple adjustable metric spanners (aka Crescent wrenches)
Spark plug socket
Some open/box end wrenches (sized to the boat rigging)
Assorted screwdrivers
Pliers (standard, channel lock and needle-nose)
Wire stripper/crimper + a few crimp-on connectors
'Diagonal' wirecutter (aka dykes)
Small file
Knife
Flashlight
Hammer

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 09:24:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A fin keel draws 4', get off the boat and push<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">....and make sure it doesn't go off without you.

Around here, the bottom is mostly granite the size of Iowa. You don't want to find it. Charts and a chartplotter are very important.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/30/2008 09:28:59

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 11:05:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 >"MacGyver ideas" came to mind"

Over time, most of us have accumulated 'possibles' boxes that we keep onboard... collections of bits and pieces you might need if something goes wrong (like a shackle coming off).

Toolbox has:
A couple adjustable metric spanners (aka Crescent wrenches)
Spark plug socket
Some open/box end wrenches (sized to the boat rigging)
Assorted screwdrivers
Pliers (standard, channel lock and needle-nose)
Wire stripper/crimper + a few crimp-on connectors
'Diagonal' wirecutter (aka dykes)
Small file
Knife
Flashlight
Hammer

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was thinking of a fabric roll-type of kit to store all this stuff. A pocket for each tool. The roll could be transported easily without taking up the space of a toolbox, or could be fastened to the hull under the port settee with some velcro or double sided tape. its on mt to-do list.

Our spare parts bag takes up about half of a galley drawer right now. Not the most efficient use of space. I haven't figured out how to store all those bits and pieces efficiently.

Edit to add:

Don't forget the extra tools for Poseidon. I hope he likes all the screwdrivers I've given him.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/30/2008 11:07:16

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 15:37:14

One method o heeling the boat sufficiently to power off is to take up the slack on the topping lift and swing out on the boom end. If you are alone this won't work of course. Retrieve your partner with the main sheet.

I have "kedged" off of a sand/mud bottom in my one grounding. The wing keel is a little more difficult to get off in most situations because you can't heel the boat and the wide keel area resists pulling. You need to back out the way you went in and at an angle from the original course. Hauling on the anchor line with a primary winch will normally prodide sufficient angle automatically but it's best to place the anchor between stern and midship.You'll also have to remove the rudder if it's also stuck in the bottom or not already (shudder) torn off.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 15:54:32

I think a good lesson to learn here is to not cut corners. Most inland ares are well documented, charts are available. Get to know the ares that you sail and don't go wandering off in areas that you don't. Find the bottom on your chart or the internet NOT with your boat. Around here (east coast FL, ICW) there are way to many shoals, sandbars, oyster bars to go exploring. I'm hanging with the channel markers until I'm safely out the inlet! [url="http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AtlanticCoastViewerTable.htm"]Here's that chart site[/url] someone mentioned in a thread a short while back.

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 22:05:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 I think a good lesson to learn here is to not cut corners. Most inland ares are well documented, charts are available. Get to know the ares that you sail and don't go wandering off in areas that you don't. Find the bottom on your chart or the internet NOT with your boat. Around here (east coast FL, ICW) there are way to many shoals, sandbars, oyster bars to go exploring. I'm hanging with the channel markers until I'm safely out the inlet! [url="http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AtlanticCoastViewerTable.htm"]Here's that chart site[/url] someone mentioned in a thread a short while back.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a 2005 chart for my area. I've found its depth markings to be quite inaccurate. i.e. 12' where the chart said 30+. I chalk it up to shifting sand bars. The corner I cut shows a sharp drop off...9' where I hit. I guess the $100 on anchor rope shoulda bought a fishfinder.
I'm getting hung up with crappy tire people that can't answer my questions. Does anybody know of the cheapest Hummingbird model that has the inside-mount transducer?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 22:27:19

Bruce (Clambeach), you could probably float your boat off of a grounding if you unload all your contingency items into your dink...

I've only gone aground once, and I was barely moving. I was just ghosting along the shore of the lake I used to sail on, all of a sudden the boat (my old a catamaran) shuddered to a stop. I looked down and saw that I'd run up onto a sandbar. If I'd have been paying attention, I'd have seen the water change from green to sand colored, but I was watching for overhanging trees (I was that close to shore).

I hope to never find the bottom with my C-250, but it'll probably happen at some point.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2008 : 22:50:01

"... float your boat off of a grounding if you unload all your contingency items into your dink..."

Heh, you're closer to the truth than you might think. At last count I have 5 large size rubbermaid parts 'trays' full of stainless aboard (hmmm... actually there might be more).

The way the price of stainless is going up I wish I had a hundred of 'em, I could retire tomorrow.

Swing keel = 1800 lb curb feeler.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 06:16:40

With the swing keel up, the rudder becomes the curb feeler.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 09:23:14

Do any of you remember those pictures, a month or so back, of a fellow trying to get past a bridge that he was clearly to tall to pass under by hanging a huge circular something or other off to one side of his boat. He just about had his rail in the water as he slid under the bridge.

Peter to accomplish this feat one would have to hang sufficient weight off the end of the boom and let it out as far as the aft lowers would allow. Possibly even removing the aft lower on one side to get the boom further out, if necessary. I don't think I'd go so far as to remove the shroud but desperation might prompt a normally conservative person to do otherwise.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2008 : 11:25:18

The traditional way of getting off a grounding by yourself is "kedging". That means taking an anchor, or two, or three to deeper water, setting them well, and winching up tight. I have done this on my 20,000 lb powerboat (aground in a most remote part of the Bahamas).

In a Catalina 25 I feel, like Frank said, that you could push the boat off by hand in almost any conditions, so long as you were willing to get wet. Perhaps you could push it around so the bow was pointing to the deep water?

If that doesn't work, and you don't have a dinghy or kayak, you can swim an anchor out using a couple of fenders or what have you for flotation. Get it deep, in the direction of the deepest water, on the longest scope you have.

Since we don't have anchor windlasses, I would take the rode to the main cockpit winch. You could put thousands of pounds of force on this line which should be enough to pull off almost anything.

Be ready, the boat tends to spring off like an arrow shot from an bow. A powerboat jetting by can be your friend - the wake will lift you right off.

Never, ever, sail anywhere without an anchor ready to use.

Edited by - on

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