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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

winches

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gerdo
Navigator

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107 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/29/2002 : 09:26:38

1982 SW std C 25.
When we sheet the jib (150 genoa) to the winches we put three turns around a winch, as we pull on the sheet the nicely laid turns all bunch up and move down the drum off the friction part. What do you think is causing this? These are the original winches. I tried pulling sheets in different directions, up down, different angles and the sheet always moves down the drum.

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mqp
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 10:01:59

From my experience, this is usually due to lack of tension on the sheet while it is being pulled. To avoid the problem, put one turn on the winch initially and add wraps as the tension increases as you pull the sheet in. The third wrap should be effected only when the sheet is all the way in or when you need to grind the sheet in. Hope that helps.

--Minh

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5937 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2002 : 18:03:42

I put two wraps on the winch initially, and never have an override. The second wrap creates more friction around the winch, and it helps when you are pulling in the sheet in strong wind. If you put three wraps on initially, the sheet will frequently override. After the sail is sheeted in, then you should add more wraps, depending on how hard the wind is blowing. (The most wraps I ever use is five.) Adding wraps puts the load on the winch and takes it off the cleat, and makes it easier to uncleat the line.

The problem isn't unique to you or your boat. It's just the way winches work, apparently.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 18:17:16

My theory is that it has to do with the lead angle to the winch. If you have the low-profile genoa cars, and they're set well back on the track, the lead angle is relatively steep upward to the winch, pulling the sheet down on the drum. The taller, spring-loaded cars might reduce that somewhat. Moving the cars further forward might help, too--although the fore-aft position should be dictated by wind and sail shape. As it goes forward, the sheet tensions the leech more and the foot less.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 21:12:45

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My theory is that it has to do with the lead angle to the winch. If you have the low-profile genoa cars, and they're set well back on the track, the lead angle is relatively steep upward to the winch, pulling the sheet down on the drum. The taller, spring-loaded cars might reduce that somewhat. Moving the cars further forward might help, too--although the fore-aft position should be dictated by wind and sail shape. As it goes forward, the sheet tensions the leech more and the foot less.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
 Dave - I think you are right about the lead angle. On most sails there is a seam that bisects the triangle at the clew. When your sheet completes that line down to the winch your car is set correctly. If the line of the sheet off the sail is too steep or too flat the sail will be trimmed wrong and the winch will have to work harder to keep the wraps in line. 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 23:15:52

Actually, John, what I was theorizing is that the angle off the genoa car is the issue for the winch. The angle from the clew to the car is a related issue--if the car is positioned well aft to get the right angle from the clew, it may be creating too steep an angle to the winch--pulling the wraps down on the drum. I recently bought a car with a spring base to replace a low-profile one (with a frozen track pin), but haven't installed it. I'm thinking it will help by raising the lead angle to the winch--we'll see.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 23:43:05

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Actually, John, what I was theorizing is that the angle off the genoa car is the issue for the winch. The angle from the clew to the car is a related issue--if the car is positioned well aft to get the right angle from the clew, it may be creating too steep an angle to the winch--pulling the wraps down on the drum. I recently bought a car with a spring base to replace a low-profile one (with a frozen track pin), but haven't installed it. I'm thinking it will help by raising the lead angle to the winch--we'll see.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
 Dave - I think we are dancing around the same issue. If your car with the “frozen track pin” can’t adjust to the sail angle you can’t send the sheet to the winch at the right angle. That angle will change with the force of the wind, being able to adjust the car is crucial. Light air further forward, to give the sail more shape, heavier air further back to flatten the foot. Each optimum angle will match the force of the wind and line up with the seam on the sail. Some sails need additional length and a turning block aft of the winch gets the sheet to the winch at the right angle but I have 150% and the standard placement of the winch and track is enough for my sail. 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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