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Now I know what it's like to sail in 60 knot wind!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/28/2008 : 09:41:08

This weekend I crewed for a friend (Jon) on a 28' Triton in two races, and then got caught in a 60 knot storm on the way home. The following is an email account that I sent to another friend and Triton owner, who didn't race this weekend. The person to whom my email is addressesd had asked me how the racing went this weekend. This is my response:

We finished second twice. The first day we had a horrible start. The RC lengthened the course at the start, and notified us by radio, and we didn't hear the radio message, so we started the wrong way and had to go back. On the race back, we beat Dan (the undisputed champion of the Triton fleet) at the start, held the lead for a long time, then he pulled ahead, then we pulled ahead, then he pulled ahead again. It was nip and tuck all the way, and he beat us to the finish by 1 min. 7 seconds.

Kristin dropped out the first day because she broke her winches. One failed, and then she cross-sheeted to the other winch, and the wooden winch base broke, so she had to take her boat home.

After the second race, we got caught in a horrendous thunderstorm north of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. I heard the wind was about 50 knots, gusting to 60, and that sounds about like what we were experiencing. The wind and waves were coming out of the north, and perhaps a little to the northwest. The waves were huge during the gusts, and we had to work our way to the southwest, to get lined up to go through the bridge. That meant that the waves were hitting us squarely abeam, which is the absolute worst way to take them. We had waves pouring over the windward gunwale into the cockpit. In the gusts, when the biggest waves were running, we bore off downwind, and went with the waves. After 3 or 4 big waves, the wind and seas would abate, with the wind at about 50 knots, and we steered due west, to get lined up for the trip through the bridge. Then, another huge gust would come along and we had to repeat that tactic again and again many times.

All sails were down and we were motoring, and praying that the Atomic 4 wouldn't stall, as it did with you and me. Dan's engine stalled and wouldn't re-start, and he was able to lower his anchor and it held long enough for him to get his engine running again. I'm not sure where he was when it stalled. Nothing that you and I and your dad have ever been in remotely resembled the conditions yesterday.

A Cal 25 with outboard engine was near, but behind us as we approached the bridge, and he was struggling too. As we were approaching Sandy Point Light, we saw a big commercial carrier coming down the Bay toward the bridge. We headed straight for Sandy Point Light, to get out of his channel, but the Cal 25 was still in his channel. The big ship didn't blow his horn at the Cal. (I suspect he thought the small boaters were scared enough, and didn't need a horn and a big-ass ship to scare them even further.) The big ship stopped and let the Cal get out of the way. Since he was headed downwind, the carrier must have used reverse engines to stop himself and hold his position, which I thought was a damned decent thing to do. There has to be a special place in heaven for guys like that ship captain.

When we got close to Sandy Point Light, the seas abated tremendously, because we were in the lee of the point of land. After we passed through the Bridge, the rain came really hard, and we could only see about 50 feet past the bow. Jon used the gps to find his way in to Whitehall Marina, and, of, course, by the time we got there, the skies cleared, the winds calmed, and people seeing us come in must have thought we were wimps for wearing foulies and pfds in such lovely weather. Dan came in shortly after we did, and they were all ok too.

I decided, however, that I need to furnish some next-of-kin phone numbers to John Little (my marina manager)!

Steve

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 09:55:18

Whew! Somebody was watching over that Cal! Thanks for posting!

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:22:29

File under it ain't boring! Geez!

Guess I would not been out there that day - did NOAA have this right or did you guys drink some bravado on the way out?

Sten

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:41:45

No bravado! Weather reports predicted something like "possibility" of "scattered" thundershowers. NOAA knew scattered storms were coming, but I don't think they realized how violent this one would be until it started to develop. Also, our skipper turned off his VHF after the start of the race, and we missed all the warnings that must have been broadcast as the storm developed. Of course, at one point we saw it developing, but by that time, we were almost directly under it, and could only guess at which direction it was moving, or how violent or far-reaching it would be. By the time we realized that it was far worse than the occasional brief summer storm on the Bay, our choices had disappeared and we just had to cope. If the skipper hadn't turned off the radio, we would have had much earlier warning of it's severity.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:50:02

Around here, the USCG also broadcasts severe storm reports on 16. I'm not a racer, but when my boat is not in the slip or on the hook, the radio is on. Steve, did this thrill-ride affect your skipper's view on the subject?

BTW, I recall a story a few years ago (Sail Mag?) about a C-27 with a dead engine at night with no wind... causing a container ship to run aground in the lower Chesapeake.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/28/2008 10:53:29

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:59:34

Steve, I was out there on the bay yesterday as well! It was a fun little adventure and quite the first sailing experience for a two friends I brought. It was sunny when we left around 10:30am. Winds were originally in the low teens, which is about perfect. We sailed out the West River to Thomas Point Lighthouse and then probably 2-3 miles past when we noticed the thunder cloud to the north.

Looking north:

Shortly after the Coast Guard broadcasted a sever thunderstorm warning and advised all boaters to seek shelter immediately. They were reporting gusts up to 60 knots, penny sized hail, a severe thunderstorm. The storm was reported near Ft. Meade and was heading east towards Sandy Point. I figured it was just north of us as it appeared and that we will probably be fine, but let's head back just in case. Good thing we turned back at that time. The wind was picking up to the mid-high teens and soon it was getting dark towards the West River when it used to be sunny. As we got closer, it looked like things were getting worse ahead with lightning and thunder and we just heard a boat reported capsizing with people in the water up at the bay bridge. I heaved to, put a reef in the main in addition to my previously partially furled genoa, we all put on PFDs, and I secured all the hatches/closed the companionway. Might as well get ready for the worst just in case. As we got under way again, closer to the Rhode River the wind was actually slowing down a bit, as well as our speed. I took all the sails down and motored full speed back. On the Rhode is where suddenly the wind shifted and we now had absolute rain down pouring horizontally with lightning striking close by. Too bad it isn't easy to get pictures of lightning! It was a little exhilarating. The winds were reported to gust up to 29 knots at Thomas Point during the storm, so we were probably just under that.

We were still having fun:

The photos don’t give it justice to how dark it really was out there.
Well, we made it back to the marina just fine. We packed everything up in the pouring rain and everything is soaked in my boat. Then just as we loaded up the cars the sun came out and the rain stopped! I’ve always wanted to sail in a storm, not necessarily purposely, but I wanted to experience it. I had fun, remained calm the entire time, took all the necessary precautions, gave instructions, and we were just fine, just quite soaked at the end. Mary seemed a bit more nervous, Kate a little but not as much. It was exciting and yeah there was a little risk, but sometimes it’s fun living on the edge a little. In the end, Mary and Kate enjoyed it and were saying how it'll make a great first time sailing story. They look forward to coming out again. Fortunately we didn’t get hit with the worst of it as it sounds like you did to the north of us.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 11:54:01

Steve,
Those waves could cause a lot of damage to a C-25 by cracking the rudder and pooping the cockpit.

I read[url="http://www.geocities.com/cptinrn/p28-trit.html"] here [/url]that the first Alberg design for the Pearson Triton up to 1966 had a full keel with a skeg-hung rudder, but the later versions had a fin keel and a transom-hung rudder.

Is your friend's boat one of these newer ones with a rudder vulnerable to big waves, like the C-25's?

I rode out a thunderstorm under bare poles, right in the same spot 2 years ago, with winds between 50 and 75 knots, but I was near the windward shore and the waves were only about 3 feet high. A nearby sailor got his 5 kids and friends out of the water and into the cabin before it hit, but he neglected to secure his roller furling jib which was unrolled and shredded to pieces when the weather cleared.

Oh, by the way, I learned how to use my anchor appropriately after that experience.

It seems we've had thunderstorms every week for the last 2 months around the Bay!

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 11:56:55

SSSsssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure Justin,
Go ahead and show off your beautiful crew .................

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 12:08:41

Quote: "If the skipper hadn't turned off the radio, we would have had much earlier warning of it's severity."

I will not step foot aboard any vessel underway with the radio off! To me it seems suicidal!

Nice crew Justin...

sten

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2008 : 09:05:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Around here, the USCG also broadcasts severe storm reports on 16. I'm not a racer, but when my boat is not in the slip or on the hook, the radio is on. Steve, did this thrill-ride affect your skipper's view on the subject?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My radio is rarely off while out of its slip, and never when any distance from the marina. Usually the fixed radio and handheld are both operating.

Honestly, I doubt that the skipper of the boat I was on will change his habits, but, if I sail with him in the future, I'll bring my own handheld, and leave it turned on.

The coasties also broadcast storm warnings in this area, and, if the radio had been on, we'd have heard them.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John P:

I read here that the first Alberg design for the Pearson Triton up to 1966 had a full keel with a skeg-hung rudder, but the later versions had a fin keel and a transom-hung rudder.

Is your friend's boat one of these newer ones with a rudder vulnerable to big waves, like the C-25's?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The 28' Pearson Triton, designed by Carl Alberg, is a completely different design from the boat known as the Pearson 28, which was designed by Bill Shaw. In other words, the Pearson 28 is not simply a "second generation" version of the Triton - it is a completely different design. The article says the Triton has a "modified full keel." I think it would be more accurate to characterize it as a "full keel with cutaway forefoot." The article correctly says that the rudder is hung on the keel, rather than on a skeg. All the Tritons I've seen have had the same keel/rudder configuration.

Tritons have crossed oceans and sailed around the world. They have a modern fractional rig, and, because of their full keel, they have an extraordinarily high mast for a boat their size, and can carry a lot of sail area to push the full keel through the water. For a boat of it's age and design, it sails beautifully in big winds as well as in light air, and, when the going gets tough, there are few boats on which i would feel safer. That having been said, some of the waves we were in Sunday could have rolled the boat if we hadn't been careful, so every boat has it's limits.

It seems to me that storm sailing creates a partnership between the sailor and the boat. The boat will take care of the sailor up to a point, but, beyond that point, the sailor must help the boat survive.

I posted this story because, when we're successful, others can learn from what we did right, but when we do things wrong, people can learn from that as well. I also posted it because, like the Catalina 25, the Cal 25 is designed primarily for sailing in relatively sheltered waters. If the Cal 25 could survive those conditions, so can the Catalina 25, as long as you keep the keel in the water. What the Catalina 25 could probably not survive is a rollover, because of its very vulnerable pop top. So, if you get caught in a horrendous storm in your C25, don't give up. The boat can get you through it, if you keep your wits about you and partner with the boat, so that both of you make it home.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2008 : 09:26:23

Steve, about how large were the waves that you encountered out there? I've heard it can get really nasty on the bay and I'm glad I was a bit further south and made it to my river in time. I haven't seen how bad it can get on the open bay. Did you happen to get any photos of the storm?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2008 : 10:37:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Justin4192
 Steve, about how large were the waves that you encountered out there? I've heard it can get really nasty on the bay and I'm glad I was a bit further south and made it to my river in time. I haven't seen how bad it can get on the open bay. Did you happen to get any photos of the storm?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've sailed in winds that measured 35-36 knots by an onboard anemometer, and these winds were waaay beyond that, so I feel fairly comfortable with my estimate of windspeed at 50 knot ambient winds and 60 knots in the gusts. That's also consistent with reports I've heard. I feel less able to describe the wave size, but I've never been pooped before, and I've never had waves that I seriously thought could roll a full keel boat, and we definitely got pooped, because I felt that warm, summer, Chesapeake Bay water running down my shorts, and some of those waves nearly put the mast in the water, and would have, if we hadn't steered downwind so that we would take the waves astern rather than abeam. In 30+ years of sailing, it was the first time survival became a serious issue.

The thunderhead in your second photo is the one that got us, but it was apparently generated north of the bridge, and we got the absolute worst of it. As you can see, it was a little deceptive, because it was piled high, but it was pure white. It didn't look terribly menacing, because it wasn't black and ugly.

When it first hit, our skipper was steering downwind toward the shore at the eastern end of the bridge. I told him he needed to work his way westward, toward the Sandy Point Light, near the western end of the bridge, so we could be lined up to run through the main span of the bridge. He said, "I can't!" He was referring to the waves that were hitting us abeam. I said, "Don't tell me you can't. You're responsible for 4 lives today, and you have to figure out how to do it. You can't keep heading down toward that lee shore, because, when we get there, the water will become shallow, and the waves will become far bigger and steeper, and they'll roll us over and over. That was when we figured out that the wind was coming in cycles, with strong, but short-lived gusts bringing huge waves, and lulls in which the wave size and steepness diminished, and we could steer west during the lulls, parallel to the waves, until the next gust and big waves came along. (I know that conversation sounds like a script in a B movie, but he was on the edge of panic when it first happened, and needed to be reminded that he didn't have a choice. He just had to suck it up and do what he had to do, and in the end he did fine.)

I didn't have a camera, but doubt that photos would have done it justice. The best times to take pictures would have been in those moments when the boat was overwhelmed by the wind or waves, but nobody even thought about taking pictures at those times.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/29/2008 10:46:29

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 12:24:06

Quote: "I know that conversation sounds like a script in a B movie, but he was on the edge of panic when it first happened, and needed to be reminded that he didn't have a choice."

Love it! Well written and well said. There is no choice - failure is NOT an option! Will the real captain please stand up! Nicely done! Fear, when used appropriately is a great motivator. Panic only leads to confusion and chaos. The captain is lucky to have had you aboard! This should serve as a reminder to all of A. yes your C25 will survive if you work with it, but B. you really shouldn't be out there when all hell breaks loose. Even bigger boats get themselves into serious trouble in those conditions! Hove to!

sten

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 15:06:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Fear, when used appropriately is a great motivator.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

DaveR
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USA
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Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 15:06:45

Sorry Steve,
I didn't mean to seem to take your thread lightly or high-jack it or anything, but you have to admit Justin chose his crew wisely.

As far as your brush with catastrophe, sounds scary as hell to me. I'll bet the bay is not that deep in most places and piles up badly. Down here in FL we have sand bottoms that make for shallow lakes and they just go nuts in storms. Very glad you guys were able to deal with it and get home safely.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 15:23:12

Two other sailors out on the Chesapeake Bay on Sunday had worse luck when their catamaran capsized. They were thrown into the water, and one drowned.

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072801814.html"]Neither was wearing a lifejacket.[/url]

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 16:08:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 Sorry Steve,
I didn't mean to seem to take your thread lightly or high-jack it or anything, but you have to admit Justin chose his crew wisely.

As far as your brush with catastrophe, sounds scary as hell to me. I'll bet the bay is not that deep in most places and piles up badly. Down here in FL we have sand bottoms that make for shallow lakes and they just go nuts in storms. Very glad you guys were able to deal with it and get home safely.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No apology necessary. I was thinking the same thing, but at my age dare not say so.

The Bay is generally fairly deep compared to Florida, but it has shallow areas, of course, mostly in and around the mouths of the many rivers that empty into to it. As I recall, I've seen over 100' depths south of the Bay Bridge.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/30/2008 16:10:57

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2008 : 10:36:24

A friend just emailed me a story (with photo) about a trawler that sank during this same storm, in the same area where we were sailing. The story is at http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/readne/2008/09_03-31/TOP

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