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anchors

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Merrick
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USA
192 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2008 : 20:28:58

I'm sure I could research this and find some answers, but I'll throw it out anyway - our boat came with one anchor, a typical light danforth - type and about 6' of chain and 75' of line. Do you guys keep two (or more) on board and do you have two different types of anchors? I'm thinking that adding one with about 150' rode would be a good idea, but not sure if I should have a second type. What do you use? How heavy does a C25 need? We are on the coast and haven't ventured beyond our protected sound yet, but no doubt will venture further the more we sail.

1981 #2555 "Aero"
sk/sr
Coosaw Island, SC

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2008 : 21:43:03

Steve, here in the Chesapeake I have two 13 lb. Danforths with 6 feet of chain and 100 feet of line. I keep one forward and one aft. They have been more than adequate for my usage: I've anchored overnight in protected water, and last summer had four other boats rafted to my boat, which was the only one anchored.

What anchor you use and the length of the rode depends on where you are going to anchor. Danforths are great in sand and mud, lousy in grass and useless in rock. You want 5:1 scope typically, and 7:1 in a blow.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2008 : 22:08:27

IMHO: Basic anchor tackle for a C25.

(1) Danforth and (1) Claw or Delta. weight range from 12 to 17 lb +-
(2) 100' shots 3/8" or 7/16" nylon rode.
15-20' 3/8" or 1/4" chain on each. Anchor swivels.

Picnic anchor - 4lb Fortress. 10' 3/8" chain plus 100' 3/8" rode.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2008 : 09:04:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Merrick
 I'm sure I could research this and find some answers, but<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hey, no if's and's or but's!!!

Anchoring your boat in your sailing locale with your local knowledge will be one of the big safety features you will use when needed. So you might enjoy reading a few of the previous threads on this forum to get a feel for all those kinds of conditions Brooke just named. Just use the search function above.

You have no choice of conditions when you need to anchor - that's when you need the right stuff to do it.

Mud, sand, grass, and rocks are the main scenarios, but there's more.

There are some special skills involving anchoring in coral, anchoring near the shoreline, or anchoring in deep water in a storm with a sea anchor or a series drogue. "Trip lines" and "diving on your anchor" to set it or retrieve it can be important, as well. You may need to know about anchoring with tidal shifts or currents, and preventing "hunting at anchor". Depends on where you are.

Ask around your marina for expert local knowledge about the bottom.

Read about anchoring for all the conditions some of us find, in one of the great sailing reference books, like [url="http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloting-Seamanship-Small-Handling/dp/158816232X"]"Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship"[/url] or [url="http://www.amazon.com/Annapolis-Book-Seamanship-John-Rousmaniere/dp/0671246879"]Rousmaniere's "The Annapolis Book of Seamanship"[/url]

Anchoring is simple, but ignoring the basics will invoke the wrath of a Red sort of Viking, famous in Catalina sailboat lore. And you don't want to do that! No, sir!!!

Edited by - JohnP on 08/14/2008 09:26:38

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 08/14/2008 : 10:19:25

I carry a 13 lb danforth on 50 feet of 5/16 chain + 200 feet of 1/2 nylon as my main anchor.

13 lb danforth on 40 feet of 5/16 chain + 150 feet of nylon as #2

8 lb danforth on 25 feet of 1/4 chain + 100 feet of nylon as #3 usually used as the stern anchor.

I think you should use 1/4 chain instead of the 5/16 but I anchor a lot in crowded harbors where short scope on lots of chain prevents lots of swinging.

If your area is primarily deep mud I'd get a delta or bruce over the danforth.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/14/2008 : 15:02:42

John P hit it on the nose. Do the research. Ever place is different. If all you do is day sail, then maybe no anchor is needed.
I was in the same predicament your are now, several months ago. Check out the threads. See what others have in your area and talk to them. WestMarine has a good overview as well on their site.
I hope you take this to heart and not that I am trying to avoid the question. Just because the 2 anchors (1 danforth and 1 bruce- both around 14lbs w/20-25'chain and 200'nylon) work for me, may not work for you.
Like John P said, depends on where your are planning to drop your hook, general weather conditions, etc. Do your research. It will be an invaluable lesson.
Steve A

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 08/14/2008 : 19:22:05

What you have now is not adequate for anything but a shallow lake on a calm day.

Buy the chain and shackles etc. at Home Depot.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 05:27:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 What you have now is not adequate for anything but a shallow lake on a calm day.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Except for the length of the rode, that's the first time I've heard the Chesapeake so described.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 09:15:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Do the research. Ever place is different. If all you do is day sail, then maybe no anchor is needed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I even disagree with that!

An anchor can turn out to be your safety net--even on a lake. Say a sudden, wicked storm pops over the tree-tops, the wind jumps to 40-50, and your engine decides not to start. Do you drop your sails and hope you blow up onto a soft shore?

An 81' rode (75+6) is not adequate to hold you in 15' of water except in very calm conditions. I do agree with the recommendation to do your research--part of it is in the basic seamanship book that every sailor should own--Chapman or Annapolis.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 09:52:23

As Dave mentioned, I only had to run under bare poles through a [url="http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/metlife_archived_9-21-2007/downbursts.htm"]thunderstorm's downburst[/url] ONCE to learn about how to anchor safely. My boat was fine - I had 10 miles to the lee shore that time, but the 20 minute event was a shock to me.

Ocean storms may be huge and powerful, but a very small, local storm can put you in danger, too.

Good to be prepared.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 12:10:23

Jim & Dave, Let me requote myself.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 If all you do is day sail, then maybe no anchor is needed.
Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Note I said "MAYBE". I am protected even by a court of law! Plus I am giving hypotheticals what I use or do not use, MAY NOT work for others. Thats why I said, "Do the research and ask questions!"
Now get off my back! Its Friday for God sake.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 08/15/2008 13:37:52

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 16:54:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Note I said "MAYBE". I am protected even by a court of law!Now get off my back! Its Friday for God sake.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not a chance...

I'll buy that excuse for an 81' light-duty rode, but not for no anchor, no fire extinguisher, or no PFDs... Hope you never need 'em, but never leave home without 'em.

Edited by - on

Merrick
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192 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 17:14:17

Ok then I will read up on all this and talk to some of the locals at our marina. It's great to hear what you guys actually have on your C25's tho, I appreciate all info. Right now I'm thinking 2 anchors with 150 to 200 ft, but not sure on the danforth for the 2nd anchor. But will not buy till research is done. Wonder how many coastal cruisers carry sea anchors?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 17:56:57

Now, what good will all that stuff do me anyway? I will be out sailing one day, minding my own business and I'll get hit by a speeding stinkpot who has been drinking all day and I will probably get blamed for causing an accident.

Steve A

Edited by - on

Kendall
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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 21:49:20

Not to Hijack this thread, but why would you need a lunch anchor, can you not just use your regular anchor? Unless you use it as a stern anchor, but then you could use your storm on the bow and your regular at the stern. maybe for a 60'er but for a 25' that seems like not only a lot of weight, but a lot of bulk. Mind you, I dont anchor very often at all,(1-2 a month) and almost never in storms.

So what do you all think?

Edited by - Kendall on 08/15/2008 21:51:45

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2008 : 23:18:26

I think you're basically right, Kendall... In the anchor locker or on the roller at the bow, you want a hook that you can trust in a tough situation, in a hurry--lets say drifting down on some rocks when the engine won't start. 25-footers don't need that big a hook... a 40-footer might want something that's easy to deploy and retrieve for a "lunch stop" in a quite cove, without having to deal with a 35# anchor and its 50# of chain. Not so with us. A 14# Delta with 25' of chain is adequate or better, and not difficult to handle. A properly-sized Danforth (which fits better in the locker) is suitable, too. Security is a good feeling.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/15/2008 23:18:59

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/16/2008 : 11:51:56

I don't carry my 2nd and 3rd anchor except when cruising. But I always have my #1 ready to go. A lot of racers around here go without them all together. I don't think that is good seamanship.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2008 : 00:14:48

For coastal cruising and ICW (IntraCoastal Waterway) in east central Florida, I carry ground tackle similar to what ClamBeach described.

On the bow:
22# Claw (Bruce clone) w/1/4"x20' chain & 7/16"x300' nylon doublebraid rode. (For grass, rock, hard sand, general overnight or otherwise unattended use.)

20# Danforth Hi-Tensile w/3/16"x30' chain & 3/8"x300' nylon doublebraid rode. (For soft sand, mud, Bahamian or 'V' moor.)

In stern locker (lunch hook):
11# Danforth w/3/16"x10' chain & 3/8"x100' nylon doublebraid rode.

Spare 3/8"x100' nylon doublebraid rode.

All rodes have spliced & whipped eyes w/thimbles on both ends. All connections to chain made with galv. screw shackles, greased threads, locked with nylon zip-ties or stainless steel safety wire.

As a very general rule, I'd recommend next larger size main anchor than manufacturers' charts specify, same or next larger rode diameter, one boat length chain 1/2 rode size (3/16" for 3/8"), rode length 10+ times deepest anticipated anchorage.

But that's just me.

If this seems like overkill for your situation, consider eliminating the heavy Danforth, and moving the lunch hook to the bow in its place.

-- Leon S.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2008 : 07:45:54

Most sources recommend twisted nylon rather than double-braid for greater stretch and therefore more shock absorbtion, which, in wind and chop, makes things more comfortable on the boat and puts less stress on your bow cleat, shackles, etc.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2008 : 13:50:22

Dave, my sources say, braid is about 15% stronger but as you say not as much stretch. I believe braid is recommended more for docking but I am sure others will add their 2 cents.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 09/04/2008 : 17:12:45

" A lot of racers around here go without them all together".
Jim - doesn't that violate the SoCal PHRF protocol? It would ours and be grounds for a protest (if you ever found out!

)

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 09/04/2008 : 20:47:02

A little more strength, a lot less stretch, but throw in significantly better abrasion resistance and you end up being able to make really good arguments for both braided and twisted. Braid is easier to handle, so I may try it with a snubber when I next replace my rode.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 09/05/2008 : 13:32:43

Steve,

From your profile it looks like you are sailing out of Beaufort SC. You've probably got 4 foot tides and sandy and muddy bottoms that rarely get very deep, until you go offshore or out in port royal sound. Even then you probably are dealing with a lot of shallow area.

I'd probably keep two danforth's up front on 4 feet of chain each and 100 feet of line on each. You'd probably only use the front anchors as you'd probably only anchor in the shallows.

I'd put a bigger anchor with more chain and rode in the aft locker.

You've got such little depth in that area but you have such strong tides, draining large areas of marsh. When I did sail on the coast of Georgia, I added a bow eye on the front of the boat with the rode attached and running back to the aft cleat and into the locker with a larger anchor to have ready to throw out quickly.

That way I could get away with a smaller regular use anchor up front. Using two up front made it easier to get a comfortable anchorage in the shallows. The forward locker is not much storage room for 2- 150ft lines and lots of chain.

You could go with a plow in the aft depending on how much mud bottom you have, but best I remember it gets pretty sandy as soon as you get anywhere outside the rivers into the sounds.

That sure is a beautiful place to sail and motor in the rivers.

But then... I have not sailed out of Port Royal.. Ask around and see what everybody else is using.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2008 : 15:14:43

Turned out with Hanna threatening we suddenly became motivated to get some adequate ground tackle. We looked around local stores and only found Danforth's so I guess that's the most used in our area. We ended up with a 20# danforth with 10' chain on 150' rode, a 13# danforth on the same chain and rode and then we still have what came with the boat. (probably 8#er on 75' rode and 6'chain). I think these should work for us until possibly the day comes we do more cruising and get farther out of the bays and rivers of this area. Hopefully we will get there someday.

Edited by - on

josgood
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2008 : 22:36:59

ok, so we have the anchors figured out. I have a danforth in my locker in the bow with 150' total including chain...from the PO. does anyone have a photo or best design to drop /raise the anchor? the PO had a cheap rusty pully attached to the forward stanchion... what have you all found to be best for quick-easy-reliable?
John

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2008 : 09:38:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by josgood
 ...what have you all found to be best for quick-easy-reliable?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This:

Push the switch up--down she goes. Push it down--up she comes. (Sounds confusing?)

(Sorry--I couldn't resist...)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/07/2008 09:42:55

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