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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 08:27:19

A real benefit that I see in the forum is the "conversational" nature of the thing and the ability to get and exchange information quickly. That is impossible in a quarterly magazine! I see no reason why we couldn't also use the magazine for things like cruising and racing articles, notice of race for and articles about the Nationals, publishing an Association membership form, notice of by-law changes and ballots, all in conjunction with publication of same in the forum. Then, the forum can be used for discussion of the issues along with all of the current uses, as well as voting.
Let's face it. We now live in an electronic age. For Association business and news, transitioning from a printed quarterly media to an electronic form of communication just makes good sense.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 11:18:03

I'm one of those who has regrettably let his membership expire due to personal issues.

I do, however, really really want to join again before the next election. I want to do my part in keeping people who manufacture arguements or who resurrect them months or years later from having the privilidge to help stear this association.

Where do I send my check?

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 11:29:03

Found the address; the check is in the mail.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 13:08:57

WHOAAAAAAA! What's going on? I've JUST been sailing and then suddenly it's like old times again. We don't need this kind of thing. May I make a suggestion. Rather than this, just hoist yer main and let fly yer genny and FUGGGEDABOUITTT!!!!!!!!!!!

VAL ON CALISTA #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 15:16:34

Val, I agree we need to get back to basics and move on. However, some or one will not move on and as I said before, the board needs to address and resolve it. I have my own ideas and if elected will voice them.
Now re membership. This is still confusing. I see that if you click on "Members" above, there are almost 3000 names. I assume many no longer participate. Perhaps we need some way to show active vs non active forum members and also show who is a paying member, on this master list.
I would like to really understand why those of you who participate on a regular basis, are not members. Shortly after I found this forum, 2 hears ago, I joined and sent in my $22. I want to address this issue later as well.
Finally, the question about whether the magazine is read should be addressed.
I am sure there are other questions out there. As many have already stated, this IS a GREAT forum and we just need to keep it that way.
I want all of you who participate and are not members, to join NOW.
If you have a TRUE financial hardship, let me know and I will pay. But I fail to understand if you own a boat, $22 is not a financial hardship. The information you get is worth 100 times more. I want to see everyone who regularly participates, JOIN. This association needs your support.

Steve A

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 18:19:59

I think it is a good idea to indicate a forum members (there are 3000 of those) status as a paid Catalina/Capri 25/250 International Association Member (or not).

The little title (admiral, past commodore, etc.) perhaps could indicate International Association membership status, or we could urge paid members to put a little gif of the burgee in their forum signature line.

I for one am going to be happy to see all the negativity on the forum stop. Lets have an election, let the voters (paid members) decide who represents them. After the election, politics, mud slinging, and bitter anger this has generated is over, lets get on with sailing or at least writing and talking about sailing.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 18:21:22

Another idea is have a "members only" forum where we can discuss this kind of thing.

I'm afraid all the name-calling and anger on the General Forum is scaring away would-be-members!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 18:49:23

I like the burgee idea in the signature area for paid members.

I don't think you can look at the members list for a good count of members. I know of several people that have muiltable sign-on names and a lot of people create a sign-on name just to sell or buy something in the swap meet section and never post or visit the site again.

700 Names on the members list have never posted.
2472 Names on the members list have not posted this year.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 18:57:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Finally, the question about whether the magazine is read should be addressed. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wait one minute there fella. Are you suggesting that people may not be reading my Catalina 250 Technical articles? That would be hard to believe.

Agree about the negativity. Seems to be coming from a very few voices. Makes no sense to me. This is a voluntary thing. If you don't like it then go do something else that you do like.

Also agree that there is really no excuse for someone who can afford a boat to not pay the $22/year membership. If you use this site and aren't paying the $22 you should be embarrassed.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:11:20

Would it be possible to give non-members (unpaid) the participant title of "Guest" instead of Deckhand, Admiral, Master Marine Consultant, etc.? I presume that would require some administrative effort, and I'm not for making things more difficult for our volunteers, but it could be a friendly reminder and incentive to join up. Perhaps it could be the default title for a new ID until a membership form is received listing that ID. Then the standard "rank" mechanism could be turned on... (?)

Now, I'll apologize for my role in the recent negativity... I haven't enjoyed it, but was worried that history was about to repeat, and decided I should pull the mask off. Thanks to a few other old-timers who jumped in and clarified that history--hopefully now we can move past it and move on. I intend this to be my last comment related to the subject. At the rate I'm going, I'll soon have forgotten everything I once knew about the C-25, and I'll move on entirely.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/16/2008 21:13:51

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:22:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Finally, the question about whether the magazine is read should be addressed. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wait one minute there fella. Are you suggesting that people may not be reading my Catalina 250 Technical articles? That would be hard to believe.

Also agree that there is really no excuse for someone who can afford a boat to not pay the $22/year membership. If you use this site and aren't paying the $22 you should be embarrassed.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Randy, I don't know about others but I read pretty much cover to cover, and especially C250 Technical articles, thank you very much!
I might only suggest the magazine put on-line. This is something to discuss with paid members. We need input on this and other matters including how to better serve our members and grow.
We as members also need to address how to get non paying members to join. I like having a closed/locked forum for paid members only to discuss such issues. I have several ideas but feel this is not the proper time or place and I don't know all the protocols.
I don't want to stick my foot into something-as I have known to do- but want to make this an even greater association, if that is possible.
Steve A

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:35:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tom Potter
 I like the burgee idea in the signature area for paid members.

I don't think you can look at the members list for a good count of members. I know of several people that have muiltable sign-on names and a lot of people create a sign-on name just to sell or buy something in the swap meet section and never post or visit the site again.

700 Names on the members list have never posted.
2472 Names on the members list have not posted this year.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Tom, the burgee is a fabulous idea. I love it. And your stats say a lot. Almost 2500 have not posted in 2008! Wow, I had no idea. I would like to know what is going on there and even the 700 never posting. Perhaps this association needs a "Membership" position. I would, I mean they, look into these types of matters as well as growth and access member needs. Something to discuss after the election.
We also need to remove duplicates, as you state Tom, and maybe look at addressing those non members who post on the swap meet. Hope I am not stepping on anybody's toes.

Dave, I love idea of "Guest". Other forums use this term and I think its appropriate.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 09/16/2008 22:20:35

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:53:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I haven't enjoyed it, but was worried that history was about to repeat, and decided I should pull the mask off. Thanks to a few other old-timers who jumped in and clarified that history--hopefully now we can move past it and move on.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave: thank you for your sage contributions during the un-masking saga. This forum is the quality place it is, because of contributors like you.

JIMB517: I look forward to your Administration.

And: excellent idea on the burgee... And/OR non-paid should be 'guest'
(I like guests and hope the forum is always accessable but I think the distinction is important)

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 23:03:51

I really like the guest/burgee idea. I would also like to add that those who complain of no fleet news and few articles in Mainsheet have had easy access to editor email addresses. However, content is submitted electronically so they must make some concession to the cyberworld - I don't re-type stone tablets.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 07:26:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> (I like guests and hope the forum is always accessable but I think the distinction is important) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I also like the guests and think it a every important aspect of this association. To discourage this in any way might make things rather stale.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 08:26:02

Maybe a good investment of our yearly dues to upgrade the capability of our forum site would be more beneficial to more people. We could then do what a lot of people on this thread have suggested. "More bang for the buck.." so to speak.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 13:53:16

I think there are a lot of great ideas out here that you all have. I would like to make the suggestion that we hold those thoughts till after the election and then present to the new board members the idea of forming an new committee to work on these ideas.(see forum rule #6 below) And then anyone interested in participating would have an opportunity for input. Just my 2 cents.
Steve A

PS. I found this on the forum rules and felt, at least the last 3 should be pointed out at this time but all should be re-read by EVERYONE:

6. Please use the "Member Feedback" forum or personal email to
board members to discuss forum or association issues. Complaining in
other forums is inappropriate.

7. Personal attacks against other posters or members will not be tolerated. Offenders may be banned from the forum

8. Repeatedly violating these rules may be grounds for suspension or revocation of forum rights

Edited by - piseas on 09/18/2008 11:59:40

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 16:51:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 PS. I found this on the forum rules and felt, at least the last 3 should be pointed out at this time but all should be re-read by EVERYONE:

6. Please use the "Member Feedback" forum or personal email to
board members to discuss forum or association issues. Complaining in
other forums is inappropriate.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I strenuously disagree with number six. What is "inappropriate" about discussing forum or association business on the general forum, especially when they happen to arise on the general forum? For example, in the above post, Steve, you are opening a discussion of the Association's rules, and the propriety of discussing such matters on any forum other than the Member Feedback forum. As you interpret the rules, you could be expelled from the forum for opening the discussion. Likewise, I could be expelled for replying, on this forum, to your comment. Also on the General Forum, Paul (britinusa) started a thread captioned "Officer Elections - The Ballot is open." Was that an innapropriate post that should only have been posted in the Member Feedback forum, and that could or should result in his expulsion? How does that have anything to do with "Member Feedback? Paul's post wasn't "feedback" from a member to the officers - it was a notice from the officers to the members. I believe rule 6 was not well thought-out to begin with, and it was never intended to have such nonsensical consequences.

It seems obvious to me that, when the officers want to inform the members of something important, they post it on the General Forum, where it is most likely to be actually read. Likewise, if the members have an Association issue of widespread importance that they want to raise on the forum, and not just in a "private" email discussion with an officer, or on the seldom visited "Member Feedback" forum, then the "General Forum" is a perfectly legitimate forum to raise it. The Member Feedback forum is where a member can discuss an issue with an officer. What if I don't want to discuss it with an officer? What if I want to discuss it with the membership at large, because it's a matter that is important to them? Where do I post such a discussion, if it's inappropriate to the General Forum, and it doesn't constitute "Member Feedback" to the officers?

That brings us to the key question: What is the purpose of the rule? What was the author of the rule trying to accomplish by it? Was the purpose to stifle discussion among the members? Was it to bury such discussions in the Member Feedback forum, where most members seldom go? I don't think so, although it will certainly have that effect.

I think the rule was devised when some problem child was launching unfair attacks on the officers and harrassing them to the extent that they were resigning. If that's the case, then it seems to me that the best way to deal with the problem is not to stifle the ability of our general membership to discuss Association business freely and courteously, as is the practice of almost everyone on the forum. The best way to deal with the problem is to expel the problem child.

This forum doesn't belong to either the officers or to any problem child. It belongs to the members. A rule that would allow an officer to expel you from the Association because you addressed a matter of important Association business on the General Forum is inappropriate, and should be repealed.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 18:07:26

The purpose of the rule 6 was to prevent endless complaining, bickering, and questions about membership. These rules were adopted during my tenure as Commodore when we spent $3500 of your money and did the forum redesign.

As a past officer, I remember now getting endless questions about membership (am I a member? what's the password?), complaints (why my boat is not listed in the membership directory?), and other questions concerning the trivia of managing an association like ours day-to-day. The members forum was meant for this.

It was not meant to stifle open and constructive dialog on the General Forum, nor to prevent threads about elections, discussion of rules, or talk about the budget.

Do you participate in any other forums on the Internet? They all have their bad apples. People get flamed, authors banned, and come back under other names all the time. Threads get locked or removed on a daily basis.

Thankfully our forum does not suffer this too badly, but people DO get banned from time to time (spammers, people selling stuff, people who flame others beyond the limit of decency). People who break the rules in a big, blatant, way.

Rules are necessary. They will not be applied indiscriminatly under my administration. You've got to earn it!

People can get banned from the forum (it has happened) and banned from International Association Membership as well.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 18:25:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 The purpose of the rule 6 was to prevent endless complaining, bickering, and questions about membership. These rules were adopted during my tenure as Commodore when we spent $3500 of your money and did the forum redesign.

As a past officer, I remember now getting endless questions about membership (am I a member? what's the password?), complaints (why my boat is not listed in the membership directory?), and other questions concerning the trivia of managing an association like ours day-to-day. The members forum was meant for this.

It was not meant to stifle open and constructive dialog on the General Forum, nor to prevent threads about elections, discussion of rules, or talk about the budget.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I know that what you're saying is true, Jim, but nevertheless, people misunderstand the rule, which is poorly written and which is capable of being misconstrued. I have seen this rule repeatedly cited as the reason why we shouldn't discuss Association business on any forum other than the Member feedback forum, and it is always cited with a not-at-all subtle reminder that offenders can be "banned from the forum." If a member acts in a manner that is harmful to the forum, I have no qualms about him being expelled. By the same token, the General Forum is, and should be, an appropriate place to discuss any legitimate Association business of interest to the membership at large, and no member who does so in a civil manner should be discouraged from doing so, or threatened with expulsion for posting there, instead of on the Member Feedback forum. Moreover, the rule should be amended to make that clear.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 20:30:47

Steve M and any member or officer, I would like to continue this discussion in the Member Feedback Forum. I hope to see you there.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 09/18/2008 20:32:30

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 09:15:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Steve M and any member or officer, I would like to continue this discussion in the Member Feedback Forum. I hope to see you there.
Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No. The General Forum is an appropriate place for this discussion.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I think the true intent [of Rule 6] was to, as Jim B. said very eloquently, " prevent endless complaining, bickering, and questions about membership". <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> As a past Commodore of this Association, and officer in other social organizations, and having worked in government throughout my career, I understand that "complaining, bickering and the asking of endless questions" by the members simply goes with the territory. It's part and parcel of being a leader in an organization. You have to be prepared to accept complaints when the members disagree with you, as well as accepting lavish praise when they like what you're doing. Every one of us has an absolute right to complain if we don't agree with the direction that our leadership is taking us. Rule 6 should never have been adopted. The purpose of Rule 6, as expressed by Jim, was to stifle ["prevent"] complaining. Whatever made our officers think that they shouldn't have to address complaints from our members?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ok lets take a deep breath. I think Rule 6 as well as the others are necessary. I just felt that complaining the way it has been done recently has no room here and that the officers should take action.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I agree, but Rule 6 is overly broad, because it attempts to stifle all complaints, legitimate or otherwise, instead of just stopping complaints "the way it has been done here." In other words, complaints and differences of agreement that are registered in a calm, polite, mature manner shouldn't be penalized, and the complainers shouldn't be threatened with expulsion. But, complaints that are registered in such a manner as to unnecessarily demean the officers or other members, or in a manner that is harmful to the Association, should be penalized. Rule 10 provides a remedy for such harmful behavior. As it is written, Rule 6 can be used to punish not only people who exceed the bounds of propriety in expressing their dissent, but it can also be used to stifle perfectly appropriate, restrained and mannerly dissent. Rule 6 does not belong in the bylaws of this Association.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Steve, bottom line, don't we all want the same thing. I really want all of us to come together. Scouts honor. I was not trying to stifle talking about change, just feel we should give the officers every courtesy they deserve and respect the rules. I do feel it is inappropriate to discuss these matters in the General Forum. Again like Jim said, "It was not meant to stifle open and constructive dialog on the General Forum, nor to prevent threads about elections, discussion of rules, or talk about the budget", in reference to Rule 6.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't doubt, for a minute, your good intentions, as well as those of the other officers who adopted Rule 6. But, in their desperation to solve a legitimate problem, they wrote and adopted a bad rule that "throws out the baby with the bath water." The rule not only prohibits bad behavior, but it also needlessly encroaches on the absolute right of every member to discuss important issues, not just among the officers, but among all the membership, in a forum where the members are most likely to see the discussion. That's a bad rule.

What really amazes me is that, although we have a good rule [Rule 10] that is well written and that should address the problem, we seem to be afraid to use it. Instead, we want to continue to endure the problem until new officers are elected, and they can write another rule that might, or might not, be sufficiently well written to solve the problem. We'll never know whether Rule 10 will solve the problem unless we try it.

What also amazes me is that any officer would give any serious thought to the notion that I, or any member, should be expelled from this Association for politely bringing an important issue of this nature to the attention of the membership, simply because the discussion is happening on the General Forum. Somebody needs to re-think Rule 6.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/19/2008 09:19:31

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 11:37:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 What is "inappropriate" about discussing forum or association business on the general forum, especially when they happen to arise on the general forum?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think the General Forum, which is under the "Sailor's" Forum, should remain true to its advertised purpose of being a place to discuss general sailing topics. I also think it should be renamed the "General Sailing Forum" to further define its intended purpose. All other non-sailing type discussions, particularly those pertaining to association business, should be posted in the Association Business forum.

For me, sailing provides an oasis, an escape from the everyday world around me. A place where my personal pressures are pushed temporarily from my mind and everything is right with the world. Extensions of that oasis include reading my Cruising World magazine, scanning through boat equipment catalogs, looking at my sailing calendar next to my desk, and yes, engaging with other sailors on the sailing forums about sailing, yet here I am contributing to the very thing I absolutely abhor seeing on the sailing forums.

I may be in the minority here, but I say keep the non-sailing topics and their associated petty bickering, complaining, and politicking, off of the Sailing Forums.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 12:50:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All other non-sailing type discussions, particularly those pertaining to association business, should be posted in the Association Business forum. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> How many members would you estimate log onto that forum regularly, to talk about Association business? A lot? A few? Very few? I would guess it's somewhere between a few and very few. That means that, when a member wants to discuss an issue of importance to the membership at large, nobody will be listening, except the few who are so bored that they are actually checking into the Association Business forum. That also means that, when the officers want to announce the opening of nominations to serve as officers, it'll have to be on the Association Business forum, where nobody will be listening. Likewise, when nobody volunteers to serve as officers, and the officers want to plead with the members to volunteer, they can only do so on the Association Business forum, where nobody will be listening. The members will all be chatting on the General Forum, or the other specific forums, where the interesting conversations take place. Rule 6 doesn't apply only to the members. It also applies to the officers. They also can't discuss Association Business on the General Forum, and they can't post important notices on that forum, because, if it is strictly limited to discussions of sailing, then Association Business will be strictly forbidden, regardless of who posts it.

In an ideal world, I would also like to see the General Forum limited to "sailing" discussions, but we don't live in an ideal world. There is a need for a place where important Association Business can be discussed among the members, and it obviously has to be a place where the members are likely to see and read it. The Association Business forum is just as obviously not such a place. The General Forum is such a place. How do I know that the General Forum is such a place? Because that's where the officers post notices to the members about important Association Business, when they want the members to see and read them. That's where they post notices that nominations are being accepted for Association offices. That's where they posted the treasurer's report. That's where Kevin notified the members that he resigned as Commodore. That's where Commodore Jim asked the candidates for Association offices to make a campaign statement. That's where Paul (britinusa) notified the members that the ballot was open, and he asked members to participate by casting their ballots. That's where Commodore Meinert notified the members that the Tell Tale minutes were available in the members only area. The officers didn't post those important notices in the Association Business area, because they knew nobody would read them. They posted them on the General Forum, where they would be sure to come to the attention of the maximum number of members.

Every one of these topics constitute Association Business, and, according to Rule 6 and the thinking of some people, they should not have been discussed on the General Forum. We can talk abstractly about what should be, or what we would like to be, but the plain, inescapable fact is that all the officers recognize that, if you want to pass along important information about Association business to the members, the best place to do so is on the General Forum, and not on the Association Business forum.

No matter how much you'd like the General Forum to be strictly limited to sailing topics, Don, it isn't going to happen as long as the officers continue to post any Association Business topics that they wish on the General Forum. Therefore, Rule 6 won't have the effect of limiting the General Forum to pure sailing topics. All it will really do is to prevent you and other members from discussing any Association Business that you might think is important. It will prevent you from being able to effectively express your views on important Association Business before a significant segment of members.

If our national or local government adopted a rule to limit our ability to effectively and politely express our dissent, we wouldn't tolerate it for one minute. It is none the less repugnant when it is done by a private association in order to limit our ability to effectively express our disagreement with the officers.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 12:55:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 [quote
I may be in the minority here, but I say keep the non-sailing topics and their associated petty bickering, complaining, and politicking, off of the Sailing Forums.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don, I dont know if you are in the minority because PAID members have not made their feelings known, with one or two exceptions, but I agreee with you. I come to those sailing forums to chat about boating and I dont want to hear complaining. This is time to relax. I like your word "Oasis" to describe it. It is a place to escape.

Note I stressed PAID. Guests have no business complaining about the association. That will cost you $22. Hummm, that gives me food for thought. Guests CAN disagree with how to set an anchor, etc, however.

Now I am going sailing tomorrow and I just cant wait. And like these forums, if anyone complains, I toss them off! Ok I dont toss them off but I let them know no complaining allowed on my boat or they wont be invited back again. They shut up or they dont get invited back.

Have a great weekend!

Steve A

Edited by - on

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