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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/08/2008 : 07:20:58

This weekend we'll be around Biscayne Bay and my PFD is over a year old, the autoinflate has never been replaced.
So I thought it would be a good idea to test the pfd in the water (and give the admiral a real MOB practice too!)

With that in mind: any ideas for how to implement this safely. (I could use the swimming pool in our backyard)

I have 2 recharge kits available on the boat.

Paul.

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 10:15:00

I wouldn't do the open water crew overboard drill without a backup boat, unless you mean just getting you back aboard. I tested ours at anchor in open water - I jumped into the water, trying to go as deep as I could, and found myself breeching like a whale. Lots of fun in warm water. Back to the COB drill, I think it is an excellent idea if you have a reliable backup means of rescue.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 10:30:07

Does she know you're planning to do this?

Edited by - on

Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 11:17:58

Yes, if she knows about this exercice. You may want to check if she made change to your life insurance since :-)

Or another way to practice MOB. Take 2 Javel gallon, fill one with water, so it would sink, the other about 1/4, so would float, and attach them with a 2-3 ft. rope. When thrown in the water, will recreate someone, and can pratice MOB retreaval anytime..

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 12:05:12

It is my understanding that the Coast Guard will not approve an auto-inflating life jacket if the discharge mechanism has not been serviced in over a year. I've removed the auto-inflator on mine and am only using the manual inflator.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 15:19:29

Not certain what you are asking for Paul. I would not pull a surpise MOB (with me jumping overboard) on the Admiral. Things could go badly. I read an article in the most recent Latts and Atts that described just how hard it is to get a MOB back on board. In your warm water I would suggest you simply practice each of you being able to navigate back to a float/cushion that you toss overboard and get the float/cushion to the swim ladder. As far as your Auto-inflator goes, it is a good experience to try it out. I fell in off the dock with one and they do auto-inflate! Personally, I would not disengage the auto-inflate function. If you are unconscious or get knocked in the head when you go over that is the difference between life and death.

Edited by - on

Breezy Cat
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38 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 15:55:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 I have 2 recharge kits available on the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a WM PFD, where do I get a recharge kit?
Thnx

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 16:05:02

Paul, is your pool chlorine or salt water? Make sure PFD is same!

Actually my manual said to do test in ocean, in 3' or so water you have control. BTW, please have video handy and post here. I would love to see demo!

BC, regarding replacement cartridges, doesn't WM sell them as well? They are pretty standard equipment, albeit different sizes- as far as I know, so should be easy to find.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 10/13/2008 17:31:01

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 18:42:17

They aren't standard, or at least ours aren't the same. I have to have a different arming kit for mine & Rita's. Edit: And both of them are from WM, just different years.

I do know that if it gets humid enough, your PFD will inflate itself. I only know this because I came back to my San Juan 21 some time ago and found the PFD inflated. I first thought the boat had been robbed because it knocked some stuff off the bunk when it blew, but quickly figured out what had happened.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/08/2008 18:43:04

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2008 : 20:54:38

There are a dozen or so actuators that the vest manufacturers use. All current models should be splash and humidity resistant and reliable. Price points determine serviceability and sophistication and can relate to the size of the gas cylinder.

Edited by - on

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2008 : 12:11:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 It is my understanding that the Coast Guard will not approve an auto-inflating life jacket if the discharge mechanism has not been serviced in over a year. I've removed the auto-inflator on mine and am only using the manual inflator.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I could be wrong, but I think they changed that Al. It now must have a manual inflation chord (which they all do) and has to be stamped as a type "whatever" pfd just like any other lifejacekt. I guess the stamp is so they can make their money from the mfg.

Paul is your goal to see if you float or if the pin fires. Additionally to see if she can retrieve you?

I'd suggest - 1. put it in a bucket of water - it will go off. Or - pull the rip chord. If you want to see if it floats you, then jump in a pond. If you want to see if she can get you, grab a fender and let her get it back on board.

Edited by - Champipple on 10/11/2008 12:15:11

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2008 : 23:20:12

We have had to bring a young woman aboard from a turtled sailboat who was wearing the only vest on the sailboat. She couldn't climb up our ladder so we had to lift her up over the side. The vest did make it difficult to clear the edge. She jumped off the upside down boat and swam toward us as we approached so things were happening very fast. The young woman laid on the cockpit floor the rest of the voyage; my brother-in-law and I told each other that it took everything we had to lift her into the boat. Everyone survived and we did take the boat under tow and got the skipper with my life jacket back several miles to the marina. After we talked over what had taken place I now have the Life Sling. We have practiced the man overboard with a cushion and occasionally a hat and I wouldn't want to be the victim or the hat as we found it was hard to come to the spot where the item was floating or we just ran over it. Practice, practice to try to develop the technique to get back to a spot in the water. It seems you are risking a lot if a details aren't worked out and planned and practiced. Under sail and wind direction or power takes careful plans to be successful to pick someone up out of the water. There is a lot written about man-overboard. Yes, do take videos and have a big crew and wear the vest.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/12/2008 : 07:38:20

I have a basic rule, never jump out of a perfectly good airplane, off a perfectly good bridge, nor a perfectly good boat. Go for the pool. Let's say you jump in and it doesn't inflate. Let's say you pull the rip cord and it still doesn't inflate. Now your drill just went to being very real. Wanna burn a cartridge? Stand in the shower and see if it blows. Some have under bad conditions.

Practising a real MOB is hazardous and is not recommended unless there is a backup boat and conditions are benign as someone offered. IF you must attempt this stunt, please make sure you have a lifesling and a block and tackle kit hooked up to retrieve your hypothermic body should all hell break loose.

Remember, staying aboard IS the primary objective. Rig jacklines, wear a harness and double tether if needed. Beef up lifelines, run running rigging to the cockpit, install lazyjacks, such as to make sure you never have to go on deck. Chances are you'll actually fall overboard at the slip or mooring. Have a system that allows you to release the swim ladder from the water, OR emergency swim steps you pull on and deploy. Even top-notch sailors have died within feet of their beloved vessel this way.

I commend you on your foresight and desire to get a feel for "what if." I personally pulled the cord for my liferaft AFTER the retaining straps were cut and the raft was in a safe place on a smooth surface. "Yes, Dorothy - there really is a poop shute." I never knew that before, so the process of rearming and learning is good.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Annapolis MD - headed south

Edited by - on

Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2008 : 20:45:25

Sten makes a good point about the hypothermia. In the past I've mentioned having live MOB drills.

Keep in mind when in previous posts(over the past few years) I mentioned we had a guy go in for a MOB drill the following conditions were true: Usually water warmer than 75, Wind less than five, over 85 degrees air temp and less than a mile from the shore. There was also a crew of 8 or 9.

I guess my point is that unless you have more than optimal wind, weather and see conditions a live drill isn't the best thing. Especially when only 1 person is there to get you back in.(not to mention only 1 boat)

I'd practice in parts - Returning to an MOB Buoy/fender without your help, checking the life jacket in the pool, and then practice, on a nice day in very shallow water getting your behind back on board.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2008 : 21:22:38

If you want to jump over the side with a life jacket on, I don't really see what the big deal is. For years, my kids, their friends, my nieces/nephews, and myself, have routinely jumped over the side. We call it swim call.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 18:05:15

We didn't!

So the test will be in the shower which I thought very good advice!

I'll get peggy to take pics

Paul

Edited by - on

Champipple
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Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 19:34:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 If you want to jump over the side with a life jacket on, I don't really see what the big deal is. For years, my kids, their friends, my nieces/nephews, and myself, have routinely jumped over the side. We call it swim call.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It all depends on the water temp, the sea conditions etc. We go swimming all the time too.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 20:26:37

FYI, while in the british navy, we would have 'hands to bathe' when the chance arose. It was time for the off watch guys to jump overboard. Of course, on a destroyer it was not big deal, but on a carrier, it was quite a jump even from the weather decks. I got to enjoy swimming in water a couple of miles deep several times, but I recall the effect of a false 'sharks' call and seeing dozens of sailors heading back to the ship and trying to climb up anything hanging over the side, 'get your feet out of the water' was goal one!

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 20:28:55

Yep, in south Florida it's called swim call, in the Puget Sound it's called hypothermia, even in late summer with 90 degree air temps (don't ask how I know this).

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 22:17:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 I'll get peggy to take pics

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Uh, Paul, no thanks.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 00:17:17

OK, so I wanna know - what happened in the shower?

Down boyz!

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Deltaville, snowbirding it again

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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251 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2008 : 21:33:28

Shower sounds good

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2008 : 17:11:45

Ok, test complete.. .the whole story.

Test 1:
Donned the lifevest, jumped into the pool, nuttin happened! No auto inflate!

Pulled lever on lifevest, nuttin happened! No manual inflate!

Unfastened the blow tube, 4 puffs and pretty fully inflated! Charmed.

Got out of the pool, inspected the lifevest.
.. The auto system indicators showed that it had fired.
.. The manual indicator showed that it had been pulled.
.. Removed the cartidge and could clearly see the pierced endcap.
.. Removed the auto firing mechanism, the white filler of the firing unit was gone totally.

Dried out the vest, and the auto system and installed the recharging unit.

Then took this video..
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyxc1JHi8c"]here it is on you-tube[/url]

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 10/25/2008 22:06:33

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/25/2008 : 17:29:52

That don't sound to reassuring!

<s>BTW could not get the video link to work.</s>

Works now, Paul... you're all wet!

Edited by - Tom Potter on 10/25/2008 22:31:12

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2008 : 17:49:59

This is precisely why inflatable PFD's are not recommended for weaker swimmers.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2008 : 18:00:39

Tom, would you retry the link to the video.

Thanks.

Paul

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