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RollerFurlers-How do you set your fairleads?

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/16/2002 : 10:34:56

Hi all,

Beautiful day on SF Bay, but my Buddy Paul still runs away from me going into the wind.

His Sparky is same hull as Hey Jude, but he uses 110 jib, I use roller furler, up to 150.

I wonder if I am setting the fairleads properly. Have experimented with various settings, sailing with just the Jib, in order to see the sail shape, and thought I had it figured out at three degrees of letting the Jib all the way out, part way, and furled 50%.

Still Paul runs away. Good for him, fast boat, but frustrating for me.

Also have excessive weather helm. That I intend to fix by tilting the mast forward this week.

If you have a roller furler, could you tell me where you set your fairleads relative to the forward winch (in inches)?

Thanks,

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958

Edited by - on

MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2002 : 11:14:03

I have my fairleads on the last notch on the track so I can get a good shape for climbing for the 150%. Switching from a 110% to a 150% I noticed an increase in helm due to the additional sail mass. My boat tends to drift upwind, even with a fin keel, when the wind is blowing 150%.

I have not done much experimenting with a partially furled 150%, only when the wind starts cranking.

If he is pointing higher it looks like a trim issue, if we is just pulling away on the same point of sail it could be trim & your bottom.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2002 : 11:15:03

Jim: I'll let the racers answer your direct question (I have a 130 anyway), but I'll offer the opinion that your "excessive weather helm" is causing some significant drag from the rudder, and even some from the keel as your helm causes the boat to crab a little. The fairleads, or cars, can move forward and back depending on wind conditions--to make the genny fuller or flatter. Mainsail shape is a similar issue involving the vang, traveler, flattening reefs, cuningham, and who knows what else... But again, I'll defer to the racers.

Straighten up that mast--that'll let her run free through the water. Mine is virtually plumb, and I have the tiny bit of weather helm that should be there. If you're bending it with the backstay, you might want to try slightly forward of plumb with it unbent so the bent mast is essentially plumb.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2002 : 11:25:19

Hi Jim - several possibles come to mind. 1. Is Paul's hull cleaner? 2. Does he have a roller furler? 3. Is his keel configuration the same?
A dirty hull will cost you a good knot in speed, a roller-furling sail is slower than a hanked-on or luff tape one, and a swinger is faster to weather than a fixed keel.
Do you have telltales on the jib? If not, put on 3 sets each side of the sail - upper 1/3rd, middle, and lower 1/3rd, and about 12" - 15" back from the luff. Go to close-hauled and very slowly come up to weather. How the telltales "break" (i.e. flutter) will give you your answer. If the top one's break first, the car is too far back. If the bottom break first, the car is too far forward. Ideally all 3 should break at once. Then flip onto the other tack and repeat the process.(Remember the 3 B's - "bottom break, back")
This gives you the car position for those wind conditions. As the wind pipes up the cars need to move back, and if it gets lighter they need to go forward.
If you want to challenge Paul you need to check the car position each time you go out.
I can't help with specific positioning since I have a full 155% genoa.
Derek on "This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2002 : 14:50:48

Jim,

IMHO, every sail should have telltales on it, as Derek suggests. They not only tell you when the fairleads are set properly, but they also tell you when your sails are properly trimmed in relation to the course that you are sailing. Telltales tell you how the wind is passing over the surface of your sails. It is the most important piece of information that you need to make the boat sail fast and efficiently. By reading the telltales, you can tell whether your sails are generating the maximum possible power to drive your boat.

After you determine the correct fairlead position in the manner that Derek describes, put a small piece of plastic tape on the genoa track, to mark the position, so you won't have to remember it. If you roll up part of the sail in strong winds, then just move the genoa car forward accordingly.

The sail is the "engine" that drives a sailboat. If "Sparky" is a tall rig and "Jude" is a standard rig, you'll never be able to beat "Sparky", because the tall rig has a bigger engine and is therefore inherently faster than the standard rig. The only way you could beat Sparky" in that case is if Paul doesn't sail "Sparky" well.

If you have the same or a bigger engine than Paul, and if all other things are equal, you should outrun him. My first guess is that Paul has recently been in the water rubbing and scrubbing on "Sparky's" bottom, keel and rudder, and that you have not. If so, "Sparky's" underwater surfaces are clean and smooth, and "Jude's" are coated with algae, dirt and grease from boat motors. All that gunk creates turbulence, which kills a sailboat's speed worse than anything I can think of. I'd bet that he won't run away from you if you jump in the water and scrub "Jude's" bottom, keel and rudder. Unless you use scuba equipment, it's difficult to reach the keel to clean it. I rub the keel with my feet, and that gets it reasonably clean, although it is awkward.

A second possibility is that you are not trimming the sails well, but I don't really think that is the problem.

With his 110% jib, he should be able to point a little closer to the wind than your 150% jib, but you should be able to sail at a higher speed.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2002 : 14:59:00

I'll take a stab -- and let the experts tear apart my theory.

I'm guessing that the winds are pretty brisk in San Francisco Bay and that your friend's 110 is better sized in those winds (and holds a more efficient shape for powering the boat than a 150). Also, a fully set sail (either hanked-on or on a furler) is always better shaped than a sail of the same "net size" furled to any level.

Derek -- thanks for the simple explaination on the jib telltales! I'll try it out.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 09:46:12

I want to pick on a comment made about the condition of the bottom.

Several years ago I sailed the on the Hudson River. toward the end of the season, a week or two before haul out, my wife and I went out for an afternoon sail. The sails seemed set properly, the tell-tails were flowing nicely but we were making nohead up the river, against the current. Other boats were, we were not.

When I pulled the boat out a couuple of weeks later the bottom was covered with the most disgusting growth of barnacles. And, that's why we were unable to go to weather against the current. These barnacles totally robbed us of any speed.

While sail shape is critical for sailing performance, the bottom has just as dramatic an effect.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, std, wing
The Great Sacandaga Lake

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 12:47:20

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
While sail shape is critical for sailing performance, the bottom has just as dramatic an effect.

Don Peet
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Especially barnacles! These guys are talking about mere slime, which will slow you down. Barnacles and mussels against a current will take you the other way!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 23:41:05

Hey Skippers!

I can only "ditto" thoughts on hull crud slowing you down tremendously. I had read the threads about reduced speed and figured that was the reason my baby slowed over the summer. She's moored on a buoy on an inland reservoir all summer. When I hauled her out a week ago, I had algae/slime/crud below the waterline BIGTIME. Thus my reduction in speed. Now I know why my depth finder and speed indicator stopped working! Duh! The crud came of rather easily with the high pressure sprayer at the carwash after the haul out. $15 in quarters to get her clean.

But she's clean and ready for winter repairs now. Lots to do and only 6 months to do them!

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 01:12:46

The fairlead possition must change as the size of the sail changes. 150 all the way aft. as you furl it must move forward to keep the angle correct. If you dont you will have either to muchor to little tenssion on the foot of the sail. It will curl or ballon destroying the force.

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

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