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Am I going to H E double hockey sticks?

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:01:25

OK, time to get this off my chest. Labor day we have a very nice fireworks display; a hundred boats anchored off the jetty where the fireworks are set off.
Two years ago a decrepit Venture 25 showed up at the club, on my dock. I introduced myself to the wife and husband; she explained they had moved across the lake from the public marina and that her husband was a wonderfully skilled sailor. I looked at "Tacking to Paradise" and saw a floating dumpster. Chainplates so loose animals could crawl past them into the boat, Ace hardware rope for running rigging and docklines, a mast that was so far out of vertical that raked does not describe it, The yoke of the split backstay was missing and the short remainder of the backstay was held to one transom tang by what can only be called string. And more! I was dumbfounded. The boat has been like that for all of last season and this season, I have been genuinely concerned the mast was going to fall on another boat. The lack of stewardship offended me.
Back to the fireworks. After the show is over there is an amazing display of skill as everyone returns to the slips at the same time, a show almost as good as the fireworks! A bit later I was walking along the parking lot and a friend ran up to me and asked if I new where a salvage pump was, "Why" says I, "one of the boats on your dock is sinking" says he, "which one" says I, "Tacking to Paradise" says he, "let it sink" says I, and I walked off. Weeks later there was a letter in our club newsletter from the skipper, thanking those wonderful strangers who saved his boat and how much it meant to him and his wife to have people go to so much effort to save their little boat.
I have been feeling like crap about it ever since. Anyone? Anyone? Am I the only jerk?

Frank Hopper

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:10:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Am I the only jerk?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The only one on the record at your club.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:40:12

... well I know you've never been a jerk, but does anyone else want to confess a lapse of character they regret?

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 11:28:47

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 11:43:44

Instead of searching for company, you could atone by offering to help him make his boat safer (to himself, his wife, and the people around him). I'm guessing that'll make you feel better than finding a community of jerks to join up with.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 12:37:37

Hmm does make you wonder if the boat was saved to just sink with the owner on board when they are away from the marina. Then it becomes more of a person rescue as the boat wends its way to the bottom.

I do know what you mean though. We have moved from our previous marina, but at the previous one, there was (probably still is) a nice mid to late 90's Catalina 270 in the next slip. In the two years we were at that marina, we never once saw the other owners. Birds had made a home in the rolled up bimini the fiberglass was turning black from all the mold, and the lines were just decaying. What a d**n shame... I would love to have that boat.

Edited by - cat1951 on 10/21/2008 12:38:04

Champipple
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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 14:49:23

Anyone who chooses a sailboat over a stinkboat can't be all that bad.

Maybe its a financial thing. Offer to help him find quality on the cheap.

Maybe it is just ignorance. - Ask some leading questions to fill him in.

Maybe he's in over his head (no pun intended) try throw him a pfd.

After all of that maybe he is just a jacka$$ - and if that is the case there is nothing more to be done.

He did at least write the club thanking profusely....

Could the "thread holding" the transom really be ultra expensive, ultra thin vectran?

Maybe that Ace hardware rope was really white new fangled somethin' blend from dyneema or maffioli?

You sure the backstay was supposed to have a yoke and it wasn't some crazy new rig design?

Olive Branch might make you feel better

Edited by - Champipple on 10/21/2008 14:50:05

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 14:57:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Am I going to H E double hockey sticks?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, but it wont be hot with flames and all. Your personal version of hell will be to forever sail a muddy lake in Kansas aboard a decrepid Venture 25 with an inept captain while his wife goes on and on and on about his sailing prowess. Alas, you will not even be able to view the other boats on the lake. Your job is to be in the cabin with a bucket bailing the rapidly filling bilge.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 15:14:53

There is probably a length limit to stop me from posting my lapses in judgement.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 15:39:01

Frank, life is full of regrets for things we did and things we didn't do. You can't dwell on the past. There is no past or future, only now.

Resolve to help someone next time you can. I'm sure there were times when people helped you without expecting anything in return.

You should not have walked away from someone with a sinking boat.

Sailing sometimes puts us right face to face with our own personal failings and shortcomings. I wish I had the courage to gybe out towards Japan the black of night in the San Diego - Ensenada race, even getting my VMG negative, and then get back on the bow and get the reaching spinnaker up.

I was afraid. I was tired. It was wet. I let myself down. Next time I'll do better. I've found a lot of my limitations racing.

Which is why racing makes you a better sailor.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 15:52:33

Ah the first part of healing - recognition of regret.

I agree, go out of your way to help the soul while you can.

Lemon is sweet until you taste sugar - maybe they have not enjoyed the boat as much as they could, maybe they don't have the kind of support we gain from an association such as ours.

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 15:58:33

Being that my first boat was a Venture 25, I'll have to abstain from the vote.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 18:32:07

Frank, I had a very good sailing buddy. We had an argument and have not spoke since. It still bums me out since he was instrumental in getting me back into sailing and helped me find Piseas II and sailed it back to my home port with me.
It ended badly and I wondered what I would do if I had seen him in trouble on his boat. My first thought was to bail but my duty as a sailor got the best of me. I decided if I came upon this situation, I would help. I would hope he would do the same but that should not influence me.
I feel we all have an obligation to help fellow sailors, PERIOD.
I agree with the others, offer to assist him and make him a better sailor.
Steve A
ps. you are NOT going to hell in this lifetime!

Edited by - piseas on 10/21/2008 18:32:50

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2008 : 20:14:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Frank, I had a very good sailing buddy. We had an argument and have not spoke since... and I wondered what I would do if I had seen him in trouble on his boat. My first thought was to bail but my duty as a sailor got the best of me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Your duty as a mariner. Even we $+!nkp*++er$ assist another mariner, except that we get there faster.

Any mariner who "bails" on even the most disgusting $+!nkp*+ gets to go where Frank hopes not to go.

BTW, he won't... The boat was unoccupied and tied up in her slip.

BTW #2... I might as well take the opportunity to gloat... Sunday, with a 25-35 knot NE wind coming down the river (scuzzy day), I watched from my "office" as a Zuma screamed down the river, lost control, and dumped. (...over his head, figuratively speaking.) The mast planted into the mud (about 7-8' deep), leaving the boat at 45-degrees from turtled. The sailor climbed around to the daggerboard, sat on it, stood on it, and couldn't budge the boat up. It was cold and blowing stink. I went down to my dock, about 75 yards away, and we couldn't communicate because of the wind. So I wrestled Sarge out of her slip (winds blasting on the beam) with some of my canvas flying like flags, and went over to help. I tried to get a line to him to pull him bow-to-wind and de-pressure the mast, but the wind on my boat pulled the line out of his hands before I could get to the helm and under control and the boat back in position. I really needed another person aboard. (But I could have taken him off in a heartbeat if he needed that--he didn't.) The Fire Department and ambulance had arrived on the road about 100 yards away... I told them by VHF that he was fine... and then the FD boat arrived with about five guys, so I backed off and they took care of him and the boat. Everyone arrived back at my dock, where the Zuma spend the night.

So, $+!nkp*++er$ can help "crazy" ragboaters, too!

(If only I had crew.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/21/2008 20:44:56

redeye
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Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 10:21:57

(If only I had crew.)

If only you had lobsters!

May you always have good luck and skill, and may someone show up for you one day, should you every have trouble at sea.

Way to go Dave!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 11:12:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 ...may someone show up for you one day, should you every have trouble at sea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It'll probably be a sailor.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/22/2008 11:56:34

redeye
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Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 11:25:15

BUT I digress, we were absolving Frank of guilt.

I say let them take care of their own boats. Of course I've added lines to my slipmates boat before. But I don't think that will keep me from the fires.

10 Hail Neptunes and have another maliboo....

Edited by - on

jerlim
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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 11:55:11

It seems to me, there is a hint of Darwinism to be found here. With a rig as unsafe and poorly maintained as Frank observed, the owner was likely saved from a more severe fate...

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2008 : 22:07:00

Jerry, but is that for us to decide! The guy was appreciative his boat was saved. Or maybe he just said that and has a master plan to rid himself of it and was just covering his tracks.

Dave, sorry you are right:sailor, mariner, seaman, we all have a duty. Glad to hear even you disgusting $+!nkp*++er$ have feelings!

Steve A

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 06:24:40

So, there I was, sweating buckets as I preped JD for launch at noon in south floridas sunshine when a McGregor parked behind us and started his rigging.
Just at the point when I'm ready to raise the mast, he walks up with an issue.. can't attach the forestay. The admiral, gracious as always, makes pleasant comments and volunteers me to go assist... grrrr my thoughts of "can't you see I'm Busy?" don't come out. Stepping down off JD and her trailer, I walk back and see that there's way too much tension in the shrouds to allow the mast to lean forward enough to attach the forestay. Looking up at where the shrouds connect to a shackle that connects to a strap near the speaders, we both see that the shackle is backed in geometric lock. He eases the mast, wiggles the shackles and back to the winch to try again. At the stem I attach the forestay easily now.

We continue on our ways after he invites us to raft up with the other McGregors (thoughts of "and risk JD catching something" wander aimlessly in my mind). But we decline. He was headed out for Koons Point further south than our destination where we planned to meet up with others from the Gulfstream Sailing Club. We were perhaps a hundred yards astern of him as we wakelessly motored out of the Black point channel. Late enough in the day that we didn't sail over, but kept the motor running. By the time I had stowed the fenders and docklines he was 50HP out of sight. Hope he had a great weekend too.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 08:12:40

"You can get there faster in a powerboat..."

Sounds like he was funnin' ya... "Geez, where were ya? We've just about emptied the keg here!"

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/23/2008 08:14:34

jerlim
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Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 14:12:57

Steve - good point you are right, but you know us Nuu Yawkers, we just have opinions on everything!!!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 14:26:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 Steve - good point you are right, but you know us Nuu Yawkers, we just have opinions on everything!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jerry, That's what I love about you Nuu Yawkers. Most of us in West Coast keep a closed mouth, except a few big mouths like me.

Steve A
PS My grandparents first came to NY but moved to CA, does that count for my semi-surly style!

Edited by - piseas on 10/23/2008 14:28:36

Gloss
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Response Posted - 10/23/2008 : 17:56:46

Hey Frank
I don't think you are a jerk.
I'll bet good money that you have helped out lots of people in the past. Sometimes you get burned out bailing people out of jams constantly.
Maybe you should have helped out, but a momentary lapse does not make you a jerk. I'll bet that guy would let you do all kinds of stuff to fix up his boat for him. He would probably let you mow his lawn and weed for him too.
Not too many folks would admit to a story such as this, but you are among friends.
No, you are not a jerk (but I'll bet there's folks out there who think I am for giving you some props)

Edited by - on

BengeB
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2008 : 14:58:00

At least you feel bad about it. You would be a jerk if you didn't. Just be ready to help next time.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2008 : 08:27:25

I've given this one some serious thought. In fairness, given the knowledge you had of the vessels condition, your response could have been interpreted as a professional opinion. As a first responder myself - Lysistrata should get some Coastie stripes - I have been in situations where I was reluctant to assist given the circumstances. "The nearest Coast Guard Station is how far?" "You want me to escort this guy in at 4 knots when I could be doing 9?" "Sure, I do have a spare anchor you can use." "Yes, derelict boat underway with two dingies for power, I will request a bridge opening for you since you don't have a radio. BTW, thanks for the 06:30 verbal yelling outside my back door. Get a Radio!" "OK, i'll turn off my dinner and help you move your huge catamaran with only one engine running, with a hook down and waterspouts a mile away."

I call it paying it forward. Kharma. SO, what really happened here is that a tiny bit of the good kharma disappeared from your kharma account. Everytime someone helps you out, a bit is also deducted from your account and is tranferred to the kharma account of the person rendering assistance. My goal is to always have more in the bank than I need. And it does pay off. A perfect stranger in Charleston just handed me the keys to his work van and said, "I'm on SV Borneo, it's a big cat at...., bring me back the keys after you are finished." Never saw our vessel, just saw us in foulies with a luggage cart to tow stuff back with. NOW THAT'S PAYING IT FORWARD! So, that cost me quite a bit from my personal checking and savings kharma accounts.

Sometimes there is a remarkable even exchange in the kharma world. On the way south on the ICW last year, I was of course apprehensive about running aground with our 6foot 6inch draft. Wouldn't ya know it, just after the Great bridge - Mile 18 or so - while hovering awaiting a bridge opening, I backed into the edge of the waterway and firmly planted my whalefin keel. I deployed a kedge anchor from the dink and frantically dropped it in the channel. A local rowing club or something were trying to take pictures and actually asked me to move! A bunch of boats had now arrived to witness the first grounding of the season, although it really wasn't apparent. A knowing Canadian captain hailed the bridge and told him to hold up on the opening, and then backed up quite a ways to take our line and pull us off. He had thrusters which really did help.

Anyhow, he was very gracious about it and that was that. We never saw them again. Coming north, we spotted a deadhead - good size and hovered around it while reporting its position, etc. The next boat to transit the area WAS the Canadian vessel that pulled us off last year. Kharmic invoice paid.

SO, I believe that by bringing this subject to our attention and getting us all to contemplate this and other assistance scenarios, Frank has actually made a deposit that is larger than the withdrawal...

I will also absolve him as the "laws of the sea" mandate that a sailor "Keep a sharp lookout, assist if possible, and report all sightings to the US Coast Guard." I am not sure if lake sailors have the same laws.

Sten

DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, FK, SR
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Norfolk VA - headed south

Edited by - on

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