Association Forum - Electric bilge pump

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Electric bilge pump

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Toddl2002
Deckhand

Member Avatar

8 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/20/2002 : 19:59:35

I would like to ask the group for specific help to install a electric bilge pump. 1986 Catalina 25 SK.
Has anyone done this ? I need help with pump type , mounting location, where to route hoses ETC.

Thanks to All in advance

Todd # 5215/Dragonfly in Miami

Toddl2@attbi.com

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

Members Avatar

123 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2002 : 21:53:36

Todd, I can't help you, but I'm darn sure with you on this one! I'm headed to the boat tomorrow, and one intended project is installing bilge pumps. I have a 1250 gpm and a 500 gpm, and was looking at installing the big'un in the vicinity of the keel winch, and installing a thru-hull above the waterline as close to the pump as possible. Don't know where to install the small pump yet.

What say ye, one and all?

Randall
TR/SK #1458
Atlanta

Edited by - on

Ken Cave
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2002 : 22:50:04

On my 1978 swinger I installed a Rule 500 next to the keel trunk where I had an inspection cover to work with beside the table. I then ran the hose and wires together to the rear of the boat, separating them for the battery, and out to the cockpit. I then installed a "thru" hole in the cockpit so as not to worry about water siphoning from the outside of the boat. And, with a Rule 500 the scuppers will take care of any problems.

I rigged it up to a manual switch which I could turn and off when I could see when the water was gone. Although I installed this pump, I never had to use it as my rebuild of the swing keel trunk took care of any problems.(see Dragon Tail in the tech section)

One problem with installing a pump. As there is a ridge for the swing keel separating the port and starboard side of the boat, if you do have a leaking problem, the water on the starboard side is trapped.

In case you might be having a problem, you should also install an inspection plate on the side of the trunk opposite the pump.

Hope this helps

Ken Cave

Edited by - on

Ken Cave
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2002 : 22:53:54

The last paragraph on the last message should have read, "on the floor beside the swing keel trunk" I sure hope that no one tries to put a hole in the trunk itself! It is sure to cause major problems!!

Ken Cave

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2002 : 20:25:11

<center>Catalina 25 Bilge Pumps</center>

Todd & Randall

In "This Old Boat", Don Casey recommends having three bilge pumps:

1.) A 30GPM or so manual diaphram pump, with 1" or 1-1/2" hoses, operable by the helmsperson. This is your last line of defense against sinking on a really bad day.

I installed an approx. 15GPM manual self-priming diaphram pump with 1-1/2" hose with the handle accessable from the cockpit with all hatches closed. The strum box is located beside the starboard swing keel pivot, with an access opening through the cabin sole for clearing. This is similar to the original pump, which died of old age.

2.) A huge (2,500-5,000GPH) electric centrifugal pump using 1-1/2" hose. This pump would be sized to keep up with a failed thru-hull hose, or otherwise slow down a serious leak. Casey suggests that this pump have only a manual switch, but it seems to me that if the boat has a big battery charger which is usually connected to shore power, I'd add an automatic switch for use when the charger is plugged in. Casey estimates that failed 1-1/2" plumbing 6" below the waterline will admit almost 2,000GPH.

I installed a 3,700GPH(rated) Rule damage control pump with separately housed float switch mounted about 2" higher than the 500GPH pump. Plumbed with 1-1/2" smooth bore hose. The pump is located just to the port of the swing keel cable.

3.) A small electric centrifugal pump (350-500GPH), with integrated float switch, using 1/2" hose, and equipped with one of those 3-way on-off-auto switches located at your electrical control panel. In at least the automatic mode, it would get its power directly (through an in-line fuse or circuit breaker) from one of the ship's batteries, without going through any main disconnects. This pump's main job would be to slurp up the small amount of water that seems to sneek aboard many boats. This pump should be mounted as low as practical in the bilge.

I installed a 500GPH(rated) self contained Rule fully automatic (comes on with internal float switch, shuts off after impellor runs dry). It's located a foot or two forward of the companion way stairs, on the starboard side of the swing keel trunk under the cabin sole.

If installing two-stage automatic pumps as described, consider adding a loud alarm to the 2nd stage damage control pump's float switch so there's no mistaking when it has been activated.

The best place on a sailboat for bilge pump discharge thru-hulls seems to be in the transom well above the heeled waterline. Each pump gets its own thru-hull. Don't use check valves. Use hoses with smooth inner surfaces. Remember to divide the advertised capacity of pumps by at least two, to determine how much water they'll actually move.

My electric pumps are each on separate 100AH batteries w/circuit breakers and ON/OFF/AUTO switches. All water pickups are located as close as practical to centerline (on both sides of swing keel trunk), protected with screens, and accessable for clearing. All discharge thru-hulls exit at the transom, located inside the port cockpit locker as high and close to centerline as practical. (I have the early version of the port cockpit locker.)

And as a final note, I recommend all Catalina 25 owners have a copy of "This Old Boat". <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson, 1979 C-25 #1460, SK/dinette

Edited by - on

Ken Cave
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2002 : 23:49:01

You forgot to state that leaving a bilge pump on when in the water (and you are not about to visit it for awhile) is a big no-no!

Problem with bilge pumps is that they can take care of a problem in an emergancy, but if you leaking at the dock, all you do is wear down the battery-and never find the leak! Guess what! The boat slowly fills up with water, and SINKS due to a malfunctioning pump.

Also, Good Old Boats is meant for the old woodies-and without proper care, they need some hefty pumps. Where in the world can you put a 3700 Rule Pump in a Catalina swinger?!!?

Ken Cave

Edited by - on

William Matley
1st Mate

Members Avatar

52 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2002 : 22:16:44

I placed a small Rule pump below the keel winch and wired it to a manual switch. I was not interested in adding another (thru hull type) hole in the boat to worry about so I installed a check valve in the discharge line of the pump and found another route out.

I have a 1980 model that uses a port and starboard, naturally aspirated vent system. I fed the discharge hose up the starboard side flexible vent hose and fashioned a kind of a troth from a piece of PVC pipe fitting. I painted the fitting black and mounted the fitting just inside the rear-facing vent cowling.

When the pump is turned on, the water shoots 6 to 8 inches beyond the transom. This setup has worked well, is well hidden and suits my needs just fine.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2002 : 23:24:09

"I have a 1980 model that uses a port and starboard, naturally aspirated vent system." - William Matley

William,

It sounds like your vent system is installed the way mine is supposed to be. However, a previous owner put in ad Edson wheel, and there is nothing left of the vent system except for the SS vents at the stern.

Would you please give me some idea of how the hoses are routed? I need to rebuild mine, and I don't even know where to start.

Thanks!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

MikeM
1st Mate

Members Avatar

72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 09:31:59

I installed a Rule 500, with a built in floating switch. I also installed a manual switch and tied the hose into the thru-hull for the forward sink. I will probably take the sink out this year as it never gets used and I can use the space. That will leave a dedicated thru hull for the bilge.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 22:20:02

Ken,

In response to:<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You forgot to state that leaving a bilge pump on when in the water (and you are not about to visit it for awhile) is a big no-no! ... all you do is wear down the battery ... boat slowly fills ... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Refering back to my description, "... electric pumps are each on separate 100AH batteries ..." and "... adding a loud alarm to the 2nd stage damage control pump's float switch so there's no mistaking when it has been activated ..." That way, if a small leak causes the small pump to completely discharge its battery, as the water rises the damage control pump connected to a separate battery will come on, along with its audible alarm. Also, my shore power charger is powerful enough to keep ahead of both pumps. (As for hearing the alarm, the boat is docked on a quiet deep water canal 50' outside my bedroom doors.)<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Good Old Boats is meant for the old woodies-and without proper care ...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>That's probably true. I was refering to "This Old Boat", a book by Don Casey on refurbishing classic plastic coastal cruisers like the Catalina 25.<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Where in the world can you put a 3700 Rule Pump in a Catalina swinger?!!?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>"... installed a 3,700GPH Rule ... pump is located just to the port of the swing keel cable." In other words, the pump and float switch are just aft of the stairs, between the aft end of the trunk and the galley drawer assembly, screwed down on top of a teak block glued to the hull with 3M 5200. There's room to mount it almost anywhere near the forward end of that bilge compartment under the quarter berth. Remember, a damage control pump doesn't have to be located at the lowest point in the bilges. I haven't got around to finishing the wiring on this pump, but that's where it's physically mounted and plumbed.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

10timesSaltier
1st Mate

Members Avatar

80 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 10:22:13

I'm with Leon in recommending "This Old Boat" -- the book, not the magazine. I'm pretty sure the magazine deals mainly with old "woodies", the book by Don Casey is entirely devoted to 20+ year old fiberglass boats and is an excellent resource for anyone with a Catalina.

Brian.
Great Salt Lake (10-times saltier than the ocean)
"SAFARI", C25 TR-FK #2275

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 15:08:16

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
On my 1978 swinger I installed a Rule 500 next to the keel trunk where I had an inspection cover to work with beside the table. I then ran the hose and wires together to the rear of the boat, separating them for the battery, and out to the cockpit. I then installed a "thru" hole in the cockpit so as not to worry about water siphoning from the outside of the boat. And, with a Rule 500 the scuppers will take care of any problems.

I rigged it up to a manual switch which I could turn and off when I could see when the water was gone. Although I installed this pump, I never had to use it as my rebuild of the swing keel trunk took care of any problems.(see Dragon Tail in the tech section)

One problem with installing a pump. As there is a ridge for the swing keel separating the port and starboard side of the boat, if you do have a leaking problem, the water on the starboard side is trapped.

In case you might be having a problem, you should also install an inspection plate on the side of the trunk opposite the pump.

Hope this helps

Ken Cave
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Ken I read that you have a 1978 swing keel. I have just bought one myself and would like to know if you have had any experience with the area under the cabin floor? I just posted a question up on the forum for this issue but the long and short of it is that this area collects moisture and water that contributes to mold in the boat that was unaccessable to the bilge pump which was located in the midcabin head area above the hull but on the cabin floor. Does the lockers under your seat cushions drain to the bilge or are they sealed off? Any other information you should have on this production year would be greatly appreciated. I noticed that the original winches and cleats have no backing plates on them, is this normal? Thanks Jim

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.