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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Need some advice maximizing my handicap

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jandrus
1st Mate

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USA
79 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2002 : 14:40:42

So I've been reading the posts on PHRF numbers and it seems that I have a good thing going up here in PHRF-New England. The base rating for my standard rig, fixed keel boat is 234. I think this is high, based on other posts.

Then I need to choose how to equip the boat. I plan to buy an asymetrical chute to use cruising but can't decide whether to list it for race purposes.

The boat will be raced with a two year old Doyle full batten main and a two year old Catalina loft 135% jib on a roller furler.

Options -
Recreational Adjustment - I get to add a nylon spinnaker and add 6 points to the base. Total: 240

Since the spinnaker is asym if I choose to do without a pole I get 9 more points - Total: 249

Or I can decide not to use the chute and pick up 12 points under the cruising handicap.
If I do that I get 3 additional points for having a 135% headsail. Total: 249

I'm thinking go with the chute, right?

For reference the C30 standard rig gets a rating of 180.

Justin

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 16:27:28

WOW! Even WE could be competitive with those kinds of numbers! You should crush that C-30, regardless of your configuration. The C-30 SR I know just isn't that much faster. Sounds like the numbers favor having either chute--go with what you think you and your crew can handle best, and what's fun for you.

Now, let's hear what the racers have to say...

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 18:46:12

Our lake is characterized by constantly shifting winds and frequently short spinnaker runs. The lake is long and somewhat narrow, and when the wind is coming across the lake, the spinnaker run is short. As a result, our white-sail boats frequently beat the spinnaker boats to the finish line on elapsed time. Unless the skipper and crew are really proficient, they spend more time trying to get the spinnaker to fill, and to keep it full, and to get it back down, than they gain by flying the chute.

Assuming your winds aren't as shifty as ours, and that you can get decently long spinnaker runs, white-sail boats can still be very competitive with spinnaker boats in strong winds. When the autumn winds are really blowing, a white-sail boat can go as fast as a spinnaker boat, and is less likely to lose control in the gusts.

Therefore, usually spinnakers are the most beneficial in light to medium winds, but only if the skipper and crew are skilled at flying them. From what I have seen, most skippers and crews only have moderate skills, and the sail causes them more trouble than it is worth.

With your favorable handicap, I would play the handicap for all it's worth, and race with white-sails , at least for a year. At each mark, make a note of your position relative to the other boats (i.e., how much time has passed between when you rounded the mark, and when they did). By doing so, you will learn which leg of the course is hurting you the most. Especially check your time for running the downwind leg against your competitors' times for running the downwind leg. If the difference is not equal to your added handicap for the chute, then don't get the chute. After a few races, you'll see whether you lose so much time sailing white-sailed on the downwind leg that a spinnaker would be justified. Obviously, the competitors that will most interest you for the purpose of comparison are the ones whose boats have approximately equal handicaps to yours.

Good luck!

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2002 : 21:16:00

If the Spinnaker runs are short and you go with white sails than a whisker pole is a must!....do not go without it!
Steve Steakley

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jandrus
1st Mate

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USA
79 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:47:27

Thanks for the input guys. The point about being able to use your gear right is well taken.

True story - I worked for an evil chain discount marine store while going to grad school (the one with the blue signs). There was a guy who came in and talked such smack about his Alerion 28 that we all cringed when we saw him coming. Anyway I was out solo one day and found him out on the bay. We were sailing toward the mouth of Portland Harbor. It a fit of testosterone I held up a $20 and waved it at him, then went to work on my winches. Four and half miles later I had beaten him so badly I got bored and left. The guy just couldn't sail. In his case he kept pointing as high as he could, didn't think about VMG, and didn't stay out of the contrary currents. His boat should have crushed me. To his credit the next time he came into the store he brought me a cup of coffee and asked for some tactical advice. Three years later he's a holy terror on the water.

I'm thinking if I go white sails I have the option of racing even without crew. Not as efficient but I won't lose points if my crew can't race.

The chute I'm getting anyway - fun for ego races and adding a bit of range to our weekends.

Justin

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 12:07:51

Hi Justin,

Are you sure that your the chute and other gear add to the base number. Out here, those will reduce the base number to a "faster boat" rating. Your base of 234 would be changed to 228 with a assym-chute. The to 219 if you add a spinnaker pole, topping lift, fore-guy, etc.

So, check with your phrf rater to make sure that your math is the same as their math.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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jandrus
1st Mate

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USA
79 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 13:25:41

Bill -

Thanks for the reality check but it actually does work out that way. The standard boat is assumed to have a spinnaker. So its not that I get points for adding one, its that I get points because the assym is not as effective as a traditinal chute, and is less effective still without the pole.

When talking about the recreational adjustment I said I get to add the spinn because I don't have one now. That would only get me up to par. In theory I'm getting point on the recreational adjustment b/c I have given up hanked on sails.

Justin

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 15:19:48

How many points does having a wife give you?<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.