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GPS for the boat

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/12/2008 : 22:19:30

I've got a small magellan hand held GPS and it's fine for hiking, biking and even on the boat. It gives me waypoints & routes, a basic map and all the usual time, distance and cross track features. It's got a tiny 3.0" (V) x 1.8" (H) screen.

I've been looking for a larger screen with a landscape aspect ratio (maybe 3.5 (V) x 5 (H)) that comes with built-in maps, suitable for coastal sailing and with a serial port.

My new VHF has a pair of wires that is looking for a GPS connection so that it will display Lat & Long, and will transmit these data over the VSC channel.

Right now I have an MMSI address, but without GPS coordinates, I feel naked to the world.

I don't want to spend the big $$$$ on a chart plotter, this is definite overkill, and with a lighter than average wallet, I'm thinking sub $200 for the unit.

I've looked at the NUVIs but they have no serial outputs. I have seen several units with a USB connector, which can be used for a power supply, but I'm not altogether certain that the USB 2.0 data port provides voltages or data transmission speeds with anything resembling the VHF's data input specs.

Anybody have any experience sorting this out?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2008 : 04:12:48

Bruce,
We decided on the Garmin GPSMap C-276 ($360 or so refurbished), charts add another $100 or so, and if you want to also use it as an in-car navigator, expect to pay another $300 for the US & Canada map pack. I realize this is way out of your budget, but I doubt you'll be able to find a chart plotter for much less. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go the 376 route, which has the maps built in, as well as charts (I think). It's going to cost the better part of $600 either way. Another option is to use a laptop on board with your current GPS linked to it via a serial port. You can download all of the current USGS charts for free, and there are some decent chart plotting software packages out there for very little. Also on the download page, they point you towards any number of different chart plotting packages. This assumes you have a laptop to use on your boat.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2008 : 11:46:12

I have and like the 276C (for car and boat)--purchased about six years ago... A few considerations for your search:

- A chart-plotter, even a small one like the 276, is a phenomenal tool on a boat. Seeing the depth contours, rocks, detailed shore lines, and your exact position on the chart is something you'll never want to be without again. (Of course, as many tell us, we should be ready to be without...) If you're going to spend the money for one that can talk to your radio, you might as well go up to at least a small plotter like the 276C, 76C, or Colorado. If you want the larger screen and data-cable capability, you're going there... (I don't know whether the 76C has NMEA-out capability for the VHF.)

- Speaking of screens, look at the pixels, too. Higher resolution makes smaller screens much more useful. The 276-376 resolution is wonderful, while the 440/540 is mediocre.

- If you like a north-up orientation (generally selectable), a landscape screen is fine. If you like course-up, then a portrait screen is probably nicer. I prefer north-up.

- A built-in battery is very nice for untethered use in the cockpit. The 276-376 line has one good for 6-8 hours per charge, but some others don't. The smaller 76 and Colorado lines are battery-powered, while the newer 440, 540 and 545s do not--they must be wired in.

- The 276-376 line uses Garmin's proprietary data cards, which are expensive compared to generic SD cards (like most cameras use). Newer models use SD. But the 376's built-in charts make that less of an issue.

Somebody else can talk to you about other brands... I'm not pushing Garmin, especially as the best price-performer, but you should look at gpsdiscount.com for some of the better deals on them.

Have fun!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/13/2008 11:52:51

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2008 : 13:20:17

I agree with everything Dave said as well. If you decided to get the Garmin, I can help you with the data cable connections, it's not as straight forward as you would think. Or, at least it took me about 3 iterations to get it straightened out in my head & then get it working on the boat. This was with a Uniden 525 BTW.

If you decide you want an extra battery (I have two), don't pay the $60 Garmin wants for them, I found an aftermarket battery for $20 that has a better run time than the original (which I had to have replaced on warranty).

I made up a data/power cable for mine that feeds off of ship's power, and provides output to both my VHF & tiller pilot via a terminal block (so it was easy to switch feeds if necessary, like I said it wasn't straight forward). I made it long enough that I can go pretty much anywhere inside the boat with it, as well as into the cockpit. I run the cable under the seat cushions so it stays (mostly) out of the way.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2009 : 17:53:48

I have the same problem, i.e. I want a cheap and simple way to supply my VHF with latitude and logitude data without the complication of a handheld GPS. I am looking at a cable GPS like one shown here:
http://www.globalsat.com.tw/eng/product_027_00001.htm
I think the BR-355 or MR-350 Cable GPS ought to work. Similar units are priced from $20 to $100 according to this website:
http://www.semsons.com/
Maybe I'll buy the BR-355 and experiment with it. Is there anyone with expertise to share ?

Edited by - jbkayaker on 01/04/2009 17:59:57

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2009 : 18:19:24

The MR-350 is available from
http://www.starlite-intl.com/Detail.asp?pid=1354 or
http://www.buygpsnow.com/Globalsat-mr-350.aspx

Edited by - jbkayaker on 01/04/2009 18:39:26

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2009 : 19:27:42

James --
I'm glad you've identified these two sources for GPS gizmos. I used a similar type for a military project recently where we had to get time and position into our system. Thankfully, today there are loads of GPS options offering tradeoffs that are suitable for practically everyone.

But I like the visual part of a GPS too. I currently have a low cost Magellan handheld GPS which does not provide an NMEA data output. I've used it for several years for hiking, kayaking, fishing and sailing. I've got hundreds of waypoints and dozens of routes entered into it.

Until I bought the VHF radio, except for waypoint storage, I did not think I needed any connections.

So I did a lot of research and found two chartplotters as possibilities. But after a lot of looking and careful thought, I realized I did not want another large screen to focus on while out sailing.

I came upon the Garmin black and white GPS 72 handheld. I compared it to the color handhelds and noticed that the color screen was less sharp and crisp than the B&W model.

The 76 unit has several key points for me:
1. It has an NMEA 0183 output that will connect to my VHF
2. I can use it, along with paper charts, for navigation
3. It accepts uploaded charts
4. You can upload or download your own waypoints & routes from your computer
5. It uses boat power as well as AA batteries.
6. It's seaworthy and proven.

It will fit neatly in the cockpit without being intrusive. I plan on updating the forum with pictures once I get it set up and installed.

Edited by - Voyager on 01/04/2009 19:31:28

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2009 : 18:53:14

One advantage of the dedicated cable GPS would be no wire from the cabin, where the VHF is mounted, to the helm station where I would want the Garmin 76 GPS. Also it is a 20 channel receiver.

Note that the Garmin costs a good bit more and the Garmin 76 and similar Garmin units do not have a "high sensitivity" receiver according to the Garmin website:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/compare.do?cID=161&compareProduct=214&compareProduct=164&compareProduct=169&compareProduct=183&compare=compare

Edited by - jbkayaker on 01/06/2009 20:12:50

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2009 : 19:40:39

I have a Lowrance 68C Chart plotter/depth finder combo mounted on a swing arm at the companionway, its hooked to the VHF. A couple years ago I won a 276C at a West Marine as a door prize and have just been using it in the truck. I since got a new garmin for the truck, so I bought a suction mount for the 276C and blue chart for my sailing area and now use it in the cockpit. There's is a female 12V plug in the coaming pocket that powers the GPS. I really like the 276C.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2009 : 20:18:12

Tom,
Do you do anything special to get your 276 to stay on a vertical? I have tried mounting mine with the suction cup in the footwell & it always wants to pop off after a while. When I mount it on my windshield(s), it'll stay there for more than a month w/o popping off. I'm thinking it might be that my fiberglass is somewhat chalky & if I use polishing compound on the spot I want to mount it, maybe that'll help.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2009 : 21:00:05

Mine did that too, cleaning the fiberglass helps. I bet the polishing compound will do the trick.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 07:30:50

I have a Garmin 276C, and hard wired it to the steering pedestal last year, and like it very much. I'm color blind, and can't identify lights by their colors (You'd think the powers that be would choose colors other than red and green, wouldn't you?). I can't safely navigate at night without a little chartplotter. But, the least expensive way to get the benefit of gps for most cruisers is to get a little Garmin E Trex, or similar unit, for less than $100., and use the position readings to plot your position on a paper chart. It isn't as sexy as an electronic chartplotter with a color screen, but it'll get you where you want to go.

The kind of electronic aid that you think you need is colored to a large extent by advertising. The manufacturers would like you to think that a gps is indispensable for cruising, when, in fact, it's more of a convenience for most people. When I started cruising, gps didn't exist, and we used a hand bearing compass to find lines of position between the boat and a water tank or other landmark on shore. We marked those lines of position on a paper chart, established a fixed position, and marked our time at each point. From that information, we could calculate our speed between each point. Even an inexpensive, basic gps will give you position fixes along your course, without you having to locate water tanks or landmarks along the shore, and it'll give you your boat speed and a great deal of other very useful information at any point along your course. The only really important thing that it doesn't give you that an expensive chartplotter gives you is a nice color screen, with your position already marked on it.

Most of your sailing will be local, in waters where you won't need a gps to know your location or to find your way around. When you cruise more often, and have a greater need for a chartplotter, and when you have a little spare cash, you can upgrade to a chartplotter, and your old one will still make a good second unit, or back-up unit. I still use my old E Trex frequently, in addition to my chartplotter.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 09:01:34

"old E-Trex"?? Try an old Garmin 48. It's so old its memory is now like mine.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 10:48:41

The guys at Rigging Shoppe (Local Chandlery) alluded to a deal they will have at the Toronto Boat show for a GPS with charts loaded for under $200 CAD. That got my attention. I'll now be at the boatshow on Saturday only to find that deal (and a handheld radio) (and a few other small things) (And to peek in the boats) (and...)

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 11:51:24

For what it's worth my MR-F75 Cobra VHF will display the position data it receives from a cable GPS.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 12:07:51

Garmin 192C (2005) We set it up as enquired, MMSI, GPS -> VHF, works a treat. We can now 'call' our buddies using thier mmsi.

Very cool setup.

paul

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 13:29:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Most of your sailing will be local, in waters where you won't need a gps to know your location or to find your way around. When you cruise more often, and have a greater need for a chartplotter, and when you have a little spare cash, you can upgrade to a chartplotter, and your old one will still make a good second unit, or back-up unit. I still use my old E Trex frequently, in addition to my chartplotter.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I still have and use my original Garmin 12XL and found a 12 in a local pawn shop a while back. So, all totaled, we have four GPS units (not including both our phones, but that's pseudo-GPS), all Garmins.

Why Garmins? Dunno, it's just what I started out with and have always had good experiences with them. Magellans are probably just as good, but I don't know, and I'm not likely to find out any time soon. My 12XL has been nearly all the way around the world with waypoints stored all over the place. Unfortunately, last time I was in Taipei, somehow I managed to wipe out the memory, so I lost all my waypoints up till then. I've since stored more waypoints in various places around the world, but I lost a bunch. I like having the GPS when I travel because it gives me something to do on long bus rides or whatever, plus it gives me a sense of having something "permanent" as a memento of a given journey. Obviously this isn't the best plan since it's possible to simply delete everything (still don't know how I did it, but I know there are key sequences you can press when it's turned on to wipe the memory, I probably did this inadvertently). Plus it's a great way to find your way back to your hotel or the airport, or whatever. I always carry my 12XL when I'm traveling, and I always have either the 12XL or 12 on the boat as a backup to the 276.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 17:23:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Garmin 192C (2005) We set it up as enquired, MMSI, GPS -> VHF, works a treat. We can now 'call' our buddies using thier mmsi.

Very cool setup.

paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What happens when you call using a specific MMSI address ? Does the called receiver do something special ? Do other non-called receivers with DSC not output audio from, i.e. squelch, the call ?

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:39:08

Maybe not a major point but since we sail off a mooring we try to minimize the amount that we carry back and forth. As such I like the portability of our Garmin Map76. Sure I've got color and larger screen envy but it has worked well for us for nearly 5 years. Just throw it in the carry bag and away we go. Back home, hook up a serial line to the computer and download/upload routes/tracks/waypoints easily. This winter, I've been getting in a little virtual quasi-sailing by exploring various freeware software to display past summers tracks on Google Earth and in planning next summers routes. A hard-wired GPS onboard offers some nice features but I am not sure moving data around would be as easy as our current sneaker-net.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 22:58:18

Gerry & Leslie... The 276/476 models are just about as portable--just with bigger, higher-resolution screens (for more boat-units). I "throw mine in the bag" and sneaker-net/USB it to my PC all the time, and also use it in my car for turn-by-turn navigation. "Hard wiring" one involves a cable you can wire into the boat (and DSC VHF, radar, etc.) and plug/unplug on the unit. They also have built-in rechargeable batteries for hand-held use. [/commercial]

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2009 : 15:08:40

What about the inavix app with noaa raster charts for iphone? Google map alone has already bailed me out a few times in pea soup fog. The cost is only $50.00. I use my iphone as a gps frequently and it seems to work just fine. I know it's not quite as accurate but it might do the trick.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:11:25

Nice to know about the iPhone app. I shall be getting an iPhone within a few weeks. I'll have to check it out. Good tip.

Deric

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2009 : 19:51:10

Google G1 Phone has a great gps too. plus it integrates with iMaps weather for storm warnings and weather radar.

On board our 192c garmin is hooked up to our WM VHF

When we have the mimi (sic) number of a buddy, we can call them directly on the vhf, their vhf shows our lat and long and when he replies we see his lat and long on the vhf digital display.

Paul

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2009 : 23:27:01

That's my goal - to allow my VHF radio to respond with my MMSI and my Lat & Long. If my new handheld GPS 72 happens to how maps and helps me sort out ATONs and waypoints, that's all the better!

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