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Out haul Question?

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2009 : 15:19:34

OK, My out haul is just tied off and is not really adjustable. I would like to make it adjustable. I was thinking of attaching a single block with a Beckett to the hole in the end casting on the end of the boom,a double block to the sail. The out haul line will start at the Beckett, go to the double block, back to the single block, back again to the double block and back to the side of the boom ending in cam or clam cleat. My question is #1 Will this work or is this overkill. #2 If this setup is OK, would Bullet Blocks be OK or would you use micro blocks. #3 would you use a cam cleat or a clam cleat on the side of the boom to make the adjustments.

Thanks, Scott

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 15:48:26

I would only suggest reversing your blocks so the bitter-end of the outhaul is running forward along the boom, where it will be easier to cleat, or to even be run forward to the mast, down, and back to the cockpit. I wouldn't use a clam for that--you don't want the line "falling out", especially if the sail is loose-footed. A cam-cleat might not mount well on the rounded surface of the boom, and might be hard to release. A jam-cleat (horn cleat with a V under one horn) might be best--just wrap the out-haul around the V under the forward horn and secure it to the aft horn.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 15:48:42

I have the same block selection (microblocks) but my single with becket is attached to the clew of the main and the double block is on the end of the boom. My line then comes forward along to about mid-boom to a cleat where it is tied off. If you want to keep the double block on the clew, then I suggest adding a cheek block to the side of the boom and mount your cleat mid-boom (easier to reach than at boom-end).

Edit: BTW, my main has a boltrope foot.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/09/2009 09:33:26

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 16:21:01

My boom had only a cam cleat holding the outhaul and it had no mechanical advantage, making it essentially unadjustable.

I was lucky to find an extra, old, mainsheet block and tackle on my boat when I purchased it. So I simply bought a new D-shackle to attach this and then shortened the line.

It is quick to release the outhaul from the cam, when I want to add a curve to my loose-footed main, and I stand up and use 2 hands on the left and right side lines to haul the line in fast, to flatten the sail. Of course, I must pull the boom amidship to reach this outhaul rig, but that only takes a few seconds.

I learned on the forum the reasons to use the outhaul, and I'm glad I added it to take advantage of the loose-footed main I have.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 16:32:55

You didn't state whether your main is loose footed or not. If it is, then all the above applies. If, like me, you have a bolt rope on the foot of the main, it doesn't matter very much. I have a 4-1 purchase on my outhaul and it still does hardly any good against that long bolt rope. Since you already have the blocks, why not try it, but if you have the bolt rope, I wouldn't spend any money on it.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 17:25:10

The sail has the bolt rope. This is what I was wondering about if making the outhaul adjustable was really worth it or not or just put the money to other improvements

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 17:58:19

A little Sailkote in the boom does wonders.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 19:34:59

It is nice to pictures of what folks have done to improve the outhaul system on their boats. I have a line -- no blocks -- that is ineffective. I plan on improving the outhaul system by adding block.

Always looking for ideas.

Deric

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 19:55:38

I have a 4:1 outhaul that is led back to the cockpit to allow for easier adjustment and because my bimini would be in the way otherwise.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 21:09:52

IMVHO, in answer to the "is it worth it?" question, if you have the bolt-rope main, fuggetaboutit. I made a loop on the outhaul, fed it through the boom-end fitting, and then ran the bitter end through the clew, back through the loop, back to the clew--then yanked on it and tied it off. That was basically a 2-to-1-purchase system, with no blocks, and not adjustable. If I had a loose-footed main, I would have rigged an adjustable system with blocks.

My belief is that a bolt-rope-footed main can be properly tensioned by the out-haul, but can't be significantly shaped for light-air or down-wind sailing by relaxing the out-haul. If a sailor wants that, they should invest in a loose-footed main. YMMV

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/08/2009 21:30:28

two port feet
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2009 : 23:20:20

Out-haul? If Your sailing on a light winded day using a bolt rope main. Can't the rope be left outside the boom track. With the clue connected to the out-haul and run as a louse foot to gain better sail shape?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:28:53

In light air, why not? In heavier air, I would wonder if the clew is adequately reinforced to handle the forces alone.

Edited by - on

millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:31:32

Whether or not you have a loose foot or a bolt rope in the foot of your main, the outhaul affects sail shape the same way. It adjusts the amount of draft in the bottom 1/3rd of the sail. So yes, it's totally worth it. And it's totally worth it to have more than a 2:1 purchase, IMHO.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:53:26

Cruising sailors often don't see a significant benefit from having an adjustable outhaul, especially if their mainsail has an attached foot. Racing sailors usually do see such a benefit. The reason for the difference of opinions is that when cruisers are sailing by themselves, they don't have any way of seeing the benefit. When racers are sailing side-by-side, they can instantly compare the improvement in performance when a crewmember on the other boat reaches up and adjusts the outhaul.

In strong winds, flattening the foot of the mainsail, even a little, helps depower the mainsail and keep the boat on its feet, even if the mainsail has an attached, standard foot.

Some cruisers might reply that, "That's OK for racers, but I don't need to be bothered with such minor details of sail trim. They just aren't all that important to me." If you're in a strong wind, and overpowered, and the boat is heeling excessively, and your passengers are frightened, it is important that you make any adjustments that you can to keep the boat on its feet, and adding tension to the outhaul can help a great deal.

I learned that for the first time years ago, sailing my C22 on a fleet cruise of Lake Michigan, when the wind piped up, and I could see that the foot of the mainsail was bellied out too much to beat to windward, but I couldn't adjust it. The rest of the fleet pulled far ahead of my boat, while my boat heeled excessively and I struggled with a heavy tiller while pounding into the waves.

I am an advocate for every boat to be equipped with an adjustable outhaul for two reasons. First, it helps. In strong winds it helps to depower the mainsail, and in light air it lets you create the deepest, most powerful draft in the sail. Secondly, if you have an adjustable outhaul, it's only natural that you'll start experimenting with it, and, by doing so, you'll learn when and how to use it to your advantage.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 12:05:29

A lot of good points to consider, Some for, some against. I value Dave's opinion highly. He knows Long Island Sound and the wind conditions we have. A typical day has 0-5 morning to mid-day then the 4 pm winds kick in anywhere from 15-25 but to have one more tool in your arsenal seems to be a plus even if it minor vs not being able to do anything. I'm also the kind of guy that thinks 'If its there, I want it to work.' Heck, Its only a couple of blocks, Not a big expense so it will probably get done. I would like to ad a big Thank You to all on this site. Being a newbie to sailing your advise is worth its weight in gold. I've learned a great deal from you guys! Thanks, Scott

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 13:14:27

I used micro blocks and a clamcleat with integral fairlead as a final solution. I had rigged one per the manual and lead it back to the cockpit and it worked very well but was overly complex. I tried a simple fiddle based purchase like JohnP's but it was too big, the micro blocks were just right.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 14:19:11

Frank, thats exactly how I was planning to do it. I too will have to have the bitter end of the line and clam cleat at the end of the boom due to the Bimini being in the way if I reversed it and ended mid boom. OK, micro block are OK to use and you never had a problem with the line popping out of the clam cleat? I would think that the line coming around to the side of the boom would feed it the clam cleat on an angle so as to keep it locked in.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 14:48:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 ...and you never had a problem with the line popping out of the clam cleat?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It sorta looks like Frank has a stopper-knot at the "integral fairlead" on the clam-cleat, and isn't really using the clam... No?

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:06:48

Yea I saw that too, I was thinking that he has a knot set for his loose setting. Just pull the line out of the cleat and let it slide out to the knot. Just my guess.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 17:04:33

That sets the full out position and it happens to be full out in the photo. I never lost the line while under tension. I did use the RACE series of clam cleats which are aluminum and hold under heavier loads than the plastic ones.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 17:26:58

I have a double block shackled into the clew, and a double block shackled into the end of the boom. From this block the line (3/16")goes forward to a single small block mid boom and then back to an aluminum V-jam cleat.
I think this gives me an 8 to one purchase which is adequate to move the mainsail foot in any conditions.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 19:05:38

Its probably 4:1 if the block on the boom is immobile. A turning block doesn't give mechanical advantage

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 09:23:52

Besides my bimini, the other reason for my outhaul being led to and adjusted on the cabintop instead of on the boom is, if conditions warrant tensioning the outhaul, I'd much rather be sitting down when making the adjustment.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 13:00:19

I installed a six-to-one outhaul from CD which is internal to the boom. Very slick and eliminates all that hardware on the boom end.

I don't recall the cost but, if you go with this you wil have to nip the ends off of any stainless screws penetrating the boom. The internal outhaul will sometimes snag on them when not tensioned.

Edited by - on

two port feet
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 23:13:47

Grate forum good information. Wish I would have gone with the CD internal 8-1, but insuring smoothness of the boom insides mite be tuff. Not to menchen removing/replacing the boom end with out braking it. Any thoughts to the out-haul track car from CD. Is it even over kill?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 06:55:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by two port feet
 Grate forum good information. Wish I would have gone with the CD internal 8-1, but insuring smoothness of the boom insides mite be tuff. Not to menchen removing/replacing the boom end with out braking it. Any thoughts to the out-haul track car from CD. Is it even over kill?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't see any benefit to the outhaul track car that justifies it's cost. You can do the same things with a couple of small snatch blocks. If the outhaul track car breaks or is damaged, you might not be able to replace it, because it's apparently only being manufactured if and when enough orders are received.

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