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Condensation in cabin

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frejoh
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USA
116 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/09/2009 : 07:00:06

A mundane issue, but one which I guess must be common to all boats. We keep our boat in the water, and yesterday we found an unusual amount of water on the cabin sole and under most of the berth cushions. Not the first time this has happened, just more than before. Seeing no evidence of leaks from above, I again concluded the water must be condensation, especially since we saw temps recently rise from the teens at night to highs near 70 within a week. Anyway, instead of taking her out we spent a couple hours hauling everything out, drying, and cleaning.

I stored all cushions up on edge to allow drying and keep moisture from trapping beneath, and under the aft berth cushions I put a bag of PFDs and our BBQ grill in its bag to elevate the cushions. Anyone have tips on: preventive measures; secret souces of leaks; best ways to keep mildew down; or steps to take while boat is closed up? Or any other advice or tales on this situation? Like I say, mundane, but no one likes a mildewy, musty-smelling boat, especially CinCHouse!

Fred Johnson
250 WK #669

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:41:51

Fred,
On my boat a PO had installed a Nicro solar-powered vent in the head. Seems to reduce humidity considerably. I've seen other boat owners in my marina leave an incandescent light bulb (60W?) illuminated all winter to warm the interior and keep humidity down. I like the solar powered vent, which works whenever the daylight gets strong enough, with or without direct sunlight.

There are several previous threads you could read, searching on "Nicro" for example.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 10:05:30

We run an electric heater designed for boats. It's just enough to raise the temp in the boat above the dew point, and not warm enough to create a fire concern. A little fan inside it circulates air. WM sells them for about $35 I think? Of course we also have free electricity at our dock, if you're on the hook or don't have power to your boat, one of the Nicro vents would be a good way to go.

Edited by - on

moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 12:37:31

I also had problems with water under the aft cushions when I first bought the boat. The solution at the time was to make sure that the top 'hatch' was pulled fully aft after the canvas was installed. If you don't water seems to get past the canvas and into the boat. This problem went away for a couple of years (boat is a 2005) but now I am having a water issue again. It seems to me that I am getting water in the aft end where it collects just aft of the bulkhead seperating the battery / steering compartment. When this 'fills' up it will seep under the bulkhead and drains forward under the cushions. My current theory is the wheel steering rubber grommet (for the rudder arm) has developed a leak; I can see light from 'there'. As soon as I can get water (hose) back at my dock I will experiment to find the source.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 13:20:11

Condensation causes mustiness and mold... not standing water! You have a problem.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 14:23:18

When no internal humidity source exists (like breathing, or a water evaporation) Condensation will be caused when a temperature differential exists between the inside and the outside AND poor ventilation. 20 some years ago we were renting a new apartment that was overly insulated (plastic I think) which cause HUGE amount of water on the window sills and mold (in winter and got worse as the external temperature dropped). We had to put beach towels on the window sills and they were 100% soaked after 1 day. Had to buy a dehumidifier.

So the boat may be warming up inside through the windows. I agree with Frank that you shouldn't have that much water.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:05:24

You can certainly get water, just as you often see dew everything in the morning (maybe not in Kansas)... When we slept aboard with the companionway closed on chilly nights, we've found water condensed on every surface in the cabin--above and below, and dripping on us.

I bought a solar vent for Passage and never installed it, partially because I wanted to use a hole saw for a precision cut, and couldn't find the right size. So I had the builder of my stinkpot install it... It runs 8766 hours per year, and I've never detected a drop of moisture or any smell of mildew. The principle is that as the air cools in the evening, the vent exchanges the moist daytime air and the moisture from your breath inside for air that has deposited much of its moisture as dew outside. One vent does it--no wiring... just a BIG hole somewhere.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/09/2009 15:07:22

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:10:01

We also use the solar driven vent and it eliminates condensation. Still, don't rule out that you may have rain water entering in through the poptop or other places. When I use a hose to wash the boat it is not unusual for water to make its way onto the sole and the seats in the cabin. The poptop gaskets and the companion way "door" are good but will leak when under enough pressure.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/09/2009 15:12:01

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:57:23

Read the West Marine Advisor on ventilation. You need to ventilate. We also used Dry-Z-Air which caught a lot of moisture.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 21:29:21

Open your aft bulkhead hatch where the battery is. Look on both sides of the battery where it meets the lip that the bulkhead screws too. If you see some standing water you have a leak above somewhere. That lip forms a small dam and will puddled water behind it. As more rain falls the dam will over flow and wet the bottoms of the aft berth cushions. I ran into this problem once and traced it to the electrical cables running to the outboard. Also check your coaming pocket drain holes, make sure they are not plugged. The coaming pockets have been known to leak and drain to the inside.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 07:33:05

Good point Tom.
At the boat show last year, the 2008 model C250 had a SS metal cowling over the outboard wire entry into the hull. (so the cables were turned down and out of the cowling exit)

My outboard wires just pass through the hole which is sealed(?) with Marine silicone sealant (just renewed). The boat is under 4 years old but the old sealant was now ineffective.

Paul

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 22:26:36

Thanks for all the good advice, everyone. Tom, I'll check the battery compartment first chance. While only an eighth of an inch or less, the most notable puddle was under the aft berth cushions, as you describe. And another area of mildew was forward under the vee berth; maybe some leak in the forward hatch? Anyone ever replace the gasket there? How about adding or replacing a gasket on the pop top of the main companionway? I've never really noticed a gasket there, but always assumed the overlap design was enough to keep rainwater out.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 23:52:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frejoh
 ...always assumed the overlap design was enough to keep rainwater out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">So young, so naive!

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 06:25:11

Fred, Just take a minute and consider the balance of the boat. Draining water through channels around forward hatch lead to the anchor compartment. If the boat is stern heavy these drain channels are less effective. Also the channels around the forward hatch must
be clean. Ditto for drainage around storm hood. In the winter months through early spring my berth cushions are stored in my cellar. In fact last summer I didn't even put the rear mattress in. We don't sleep back there anymore and I just use a blanket to set gear etc on.

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2009 : 21:40:11

Found a small drip underneath the forward hatch Saturday. Any tips on replacing the hatch gasket/ best replacement product?

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 13:17:16

Horror of horrors... our bottom in the fuel compartment was not sealed. A couple of years ago we noticed this on our '95 C250 WB when we accidentally spilled some gasoline. It dripped from the fuel compartment directly into the battery compartment below with some running under the aft cushions

Several others on this forum confirmed and reported having a similar fuel compartment leak.

After a thorough cleaning and drying-out period the bottom and particularly the inside edges, walls/floor, of the fuel compartment were caulked and resealed.

It could have been disastrous while sliding into the aft berth with static sparks and all

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3459 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 16:31:08

Fred,

I have not replaced the gasket on the forward hatch but I did develop a develop a drip that came from that area. I inspected the hatch and found that debris was stuck to it. I cleaned off the debris and then sealed the area around the bottom part believe with 3M 4200 or Boatlife sealant - just a thin consistency. I have not had more leaks from that area.

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 20:36:49

Another good place to check-the fuel locker! Have never found any water in there, but will check for any signs. And I'll be sure to clean any debris from the drain channels. Thanks, guys.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3459 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 18:12:21

Fred,

I was not fully clear when I explained I cleaned off the debris. I did remove debris in the channel and etc crevice areas..also around the hinges. But what may have been of best benefit was that I had some debris stuck to the rubber gasket/seal ring. I cleaned the gasket surface with just a wet cloth and I believe that made the difference.

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2009 : 07:03:47

Fred;
We've owned our 250 for 8 years, in that time we've had several cases of water in the boat. The first involved a wet cushion under the cockpit. The problem was caused by water traveling under the plexiglass hatch cover, we solved it by cutting a shallow saw kerf, about 1/8" wide and 1/8" deep about 1/2" in from each of the four edges of the hatch cover. This was done on a table saw but could be done with a router. This groove causes the water to drip into the drain channl, or over the face of the hatch board before it enters the boat. Our next leak was caused by a crack in the thru hull that drains the anchor locker. This fitting was accessed through an opening in the bow above the "V" birth. The next was the screws attaching the life line stantions, I removed and rebedded them with 3M 5200. The last and most distressing was a crack in the joint attaching the ballast tank. The crack was under port side of the "V" birth, extending back nearly to the head compartment. I did this repair with the boat in the water by first blowing the ballast, drying the open seam, enlarging the crack with a dremmel tool, filling the crack with underwater epoxy, reinforcing the seam with fiberglass resin containing glass fiber, then covering the repair with glass tape. This repair has held up very well and solved the problem. It sounds like my boat is a mass of leaks, but it actually is the dryest boat that I have ever owned. The boat is generally so dry that when any water shows up in a locker, I know that I have a problem.

Best of luck

Bill c250 wb #134 Serendipity
on Kerr Lake NC

Edited by - on

frejoh
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 18:59:31

Well, just got back from the lake, and have confirmed what many of you have said, i.e. the water under the aft berth was not condensation, but coming from the battery compartment. Once it was enough to flow over a small(<1 in.)lip there, it would seep UNDER the bulkhead, which is not sealed by the vinyl gasket along its bottom. Still unclear how the water gets in there to begin with, maybe the alternator wires? Finally also put 4 bags of rock from Home Depot (free shrink wrap!) under the vee berth, too; maybe she will sail better and drain the forward hatch properly. A million thanks for all the good advice!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 20:25:48

Could be the alternator wires. Also could be that you have a leak in one of the lockers or some piece of hardware in the aft of the boat. One way to diagnose is to take a piece of chalk and draw lines in the battery area. Then check to see what lines were hit by water the next time you see that there has been leaking. If the leaking is significant you could also go under there while someone shoots a hose around in the cockpit area.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 21:39:59

Check your fuel compartment as well your lines... The leak on our '95 C250 #151 WB was definitely inside the fuel compartment.. big time... (several others reported the same problem)

The floor itself looked sealed but water or any fluid could seep (and did) freely in the hollow area where the fuel compartment walls meets the floor and drip freely into the battery compartment below and from there seep under the aft cushions. (sometimes a faint fuel smell could be noticed below in the aft compartment)

You may wish to use a mirror to see up close. We detected substantial unsealed areas of exposed glass fibers along the base of the inside wall/floor connection inside the fuel tank. Consider using a fuel resistant sealant/caulking

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 02:49:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Consider using a fuel resistant sealant/caulking<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If this were the case on my boat I think I'd hesitate to trust a sealant. I'd grind the fiberglass & lay in some thickened epoxy & fiberglass tape to insure that there couldn't be any intrusion.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 23:59:29

First time this topic has come up in a long while, but the leak is probably coming from the coming boxes. Catalina did not do a good job of attaching the coming boxes so when the wind blows along with rain or you wash the boat the water will leak into the battery compartment until it gets filled then flow over the aft bulkhead dam. To stop the leak you can clean the coming inside and either fill with epoxy or caulk the coming hull joint.
To keep the water out of the aft berth you must provide a path to the bilge. This is done by drilling two 1/8 inch holes were the bottom of the dam contacts the hull. The holes are drilled on an angle so as not to penetrate the hull.
Go to C250 tech tips click on show all "here" and go down to Lady Kay "keeping aft berth dry". Oscar gives a great explanation and pictures to show how. I am sure if you pull the bulkhead and battery then have a friend put a hose in the comings while you are looking with a light, I am pretty sure you will find the leaks.

Edited by - frog0911 on 03/23/2009 00:02:14

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 12:20:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Catalina did not do a good job of attaching the coming boxes<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Same thing with the fuel compartment inside wall/floor joint. In most cases a "leak", caused by porous, open exposed fiberglass may not be discovered due to little water, other than some condensation, entering this compartment.

To check, plug the drain holes and pour some water...

Ours dripped accidentally spilled gasoline through several openings on top of the battery

(Don't want to go to what could have happened)

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