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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Replacing Teak Handrails

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Cate
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199 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/09/2009 : 14:58:09

I am thinking of replacing my teak handrails on my 1983 C-25. (Cracked,afraid they will break if I take them off for refinishing)
CD sells them for about $85 each, but I also noticed other places sell a 73 inch, 7 loop teak handrail. Do you think these would be the same?

I also see that the handrails are not drilled. Does anyone have experience putting new handrails on? Advice?

1983 C-25, Standard rig, swing keel

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:26:31

If you measure your current handrails -- the distance from screw hole to screw hole then compare it to the handrails found at West Marine, etc you will be able to determine if they will owrk. Equally, be a bit cautious with CD as sometimes what they sell is not quite to dimension. As far as drilling the holes and re-bedding, it is fairly straight forward and on the archives their should be some posts explaining in detail.

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Cate
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Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:31:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 If you measure your current handrails -- the distance from screw hole to screw hole then compare it to the handrails found at West Marine, etc you will be able to determine if they will owrk. Equally, be a bit cautious with CD as sometimes what they sell is not quite to dimension. As far as drilling the holes and re-bedding, it is fairly straight forward and on the archives their should be some posts explaining in detail.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was thinking of buying handrails online from Defender so I wouldn't be able to measure from screw hole to screw hole. I did a search on this forum for handrails and didn't see any detail about removing old and replacing with new. Maybe I should check all forums.

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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 15:58:30

RE Defender -- the people there are good folk and possibly they would tell you what the distance is center to center. I go to Defender a couple of times each year but will not be near there for a while otherwise I would check for you.

As far as drilling teak, when you have your spacing measured*, get replacement screws of the same size as was used in the originals (possibly they can be reused, but not always the case)then one size smaller drill. Handrails are screwed from the bottom (inside) the cabin out into the handrail. Use the old drill for a rough estimate of how far into the teak it went and mark your drill so you know -- nail polish works. If you only have a hand drill align carefully and drill in to the mark. I would then use a bedding compound on the bottom of the teak -- start at one end securing (but do not tighten completely) the first screw, then work your way to the other end. You will need assistance as the wood will need to be bent into the curve -- constant pressure as you Handrails are screwed from the bottom (inside) the cabin out into the handrail. When done go back and tighten each screw.
* If you need to get measurements, then when you remove the old handrail align it with the new and mark the hole location one rung at a time (the old is slightly warped to contour to the coach roof.

Hope this helps.

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Cate
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Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 16:16:22

Thanks Peter. Good info on the screws and method for the 1983. I thought I might have to deal with nuts, teak plugs, bolts, and WD40!
I did find more info on handrail installs in other forums on this site.
I don't think Defender has pre-drilled holes in their handrails so I may want to know the distance of loops to make sure there will be a good amount of wood available for my drill holes.

I think I'm pretty clear on the bedding :)

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 16:41:10

I have used the Defender 7 loop rails, they are fine. On my boat the two end attachment points were through bolted from the top down and I believe at the center point as well. My new rails went poorly by my standards, my failure was that I did not use pilot holes as guides and then take the rails in to my drill press so the holes would be perfectly squared with the teak. My drill angles were poor so it did not look factory. If you have access to a drill press it will ensure a good job.
Here is a photo of the Defender teak rails next to stoke rails.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 19:41:04

Cate: Do your current rails have three or four bolts each--at the ends and toward the center, and screws for the other legs? That's how mine were done (1985). The advantage that I found when I removed, refinished, and then re-installed them was that the bolts made it very easy to bend the rails into place and bed them. The screws went in last after the rails were in place.

If you have that combination, I'd seriously consider reproducing it. You just need to drill a larger hole down from the top, drill a smaller hole through to the bottom, install the bolts, glue some teak bungs into the holes, and sand them down. Next I'd "dry" install the rails into the bolt holes, mark the screw holes, remove the rails, drill for the screws, and then do the final installation with bedding compound. I think it'll be at least as easy overall, and the bedding should be more effective and less messy.

I don't know exactly what kind of bolts were installed in my rails--I never popped the bungs out to check... But one objective is to make it hard to turn the bolts, so that you can tighten the nuts from inside. You can investigate that in your old rails, but I suspect the solution is hex-headed bolts, with holes that they will barely fit into, such that you have to tap them down with a screwdriver and hammer. Then I'd pour a little exterior wood glue into the holes to secure the heads. (I'd be leery of the effect of heat from epoxy.)

One other option to consider is to remove your rails, sand them down, apply some filler in the cracks, and see what you think. I don't know the severity of your cracks, but you might be surprised at how the rails can be restored to like-new appearance. Looking at Frank's picture, mine looked worse than his old ones, and when I was done they looked as good as his new ones. BTW, while I was working on them, I put some caulk in the holes and went sailing.

Good luck!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/09/2009 19:57:29

millermg
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159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 18:33:24

Mine on my '83 were cracked, and generally terrible, but I did end up taking them off,sanding and re-finishing. I broke one clean in half trying to 'carefully' get it out of the bedding material, and epoxied the pieces back together. I had several other cracks that didn't break all the way through, but after a little putty and sand paper and about 1,200 coats of Deks Olje, they look beautiful. I'm convinced I can get another 25 years out of them:)

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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408 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2009 : 21:07:24

I reworked the handrails last year. I remember using a chemical 2 part system to clean them. Some areas of the handrail had deep grooves along the grain, that the best way for me to clean those areas was to scrape the grit out with a fine blade screw driver.

I finished the rails with stain and Cetol (gloss). I'll inspect and touch up each year as needed. I was lucky in that I didn't break anything during the removal nor the installation of the rails.

Deric

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2009 : 15:25:50

There's been discussion over the many years of Catalina production about the "right" way to do handrail rebedding. Because of the curve, many suggest to not take them off completely, but to simply raise them up and rebed. Many take them off to do over the winter at home. I prefer to do them in place, after having struggled on our C25 to get them back in the right holes which I found to be a pain. I keep them in place with a little lift on our C34.

The basic installation from the factory included bolts on the ends and every three links. The bolts were topped with bungs on the top of the handrails. The intermediate links were screwed from the bottom.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5368 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2009 : 23:09:04

Just to add to Dave's comments, on my first year with Passage, I pulled the hand rails, sanded them mercilessly, filled and refinished them and remounted them exactly as Dave mentioned.

I lined the bolts into the holes in the cabin top, bent the rails, bedded the bottoms with polysulfide and pushed the rails down into place.

Prior to remounting, I prevented the bolts turning by thinning some glue and forcing it in between the bolts and the wood.

Then, during the installation, I threaded a flat washer, a lock washer and a nut up onto the bolt from the inside of the cabin, and holding the end of the bolt with a pair of vicegrips with electrical tape over the jaws to prevent marring the threads, I took a 7/16th open-ended wrench to tighten the nuts, and with no problem, I gently snugged the nuts and bolts almost all the way up.

Then I screwed the remaining screws into place. At this point, if I had a new set of rails, I could have drilled out the remaining holes right through the existing cabin top holes to line them up and could have driven the screws right in.

Now, with the polysulfide, you want to set the rails in place, but don't over-tighten the bolts and screws, as you want to allow the polysulfide to cure beforehand. A few days to a week later, then tighten the rails down all the way.

Edited by - on

Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2009 : 08:01:45

When we refinished the handrails on our 82 C25, I found that they were attached with hanger bolts as shown below. Over the years, a few of the woodthreaded holes in the rails had turned out and would not hold. After epoxying the bolts into the rails, I drilled a 1/16 hole perpendicular to the rail and bolt and inserted a short piece of piano wire. Then, I used a small dab of epoxy to fill the hole behind the wire. This is hard to describe but maybe the sketch below will help.

Edited by - on

Charlie
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2009 : 22:39:06

When I replaced the handrails on my '84 I used the ones from Cat Direct. I also used hangar bolts from Rockler.com, which was much easier and cleaner than the old bolts and bungs. I had a helper outside the cabin and the whole installation took 15-20 minutes for both rails. I started with the most aft bolt and had my helper locate the rail then I drilled the pilot hole from inside the cabin (through the existing bolt hole)and screwed in the hanger bolt, which take a special driver. Install a nut and move on to the next bolt or screw location. bending the handrails is very easy and not an issue.

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