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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

self righting on an empty water ballast

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Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/07/2009 : 01:51:45

I would like to know how much stable is the 250 wb whitout the water in the water ballast.

My boat is at some friend place and when we go out on the lake , from man made waterways , I hit aground a little . the water depth is controled since it is in the st-lawrence waterways but still few time in summer the boat touch the ground , which is sand,

not to say that I dont like it so I was wondering if I empty the balast and get those fews inches I probably wouldnt touch the bottom .
but will it capsise in heavy winds ?

Sebas, quebec ,proud owner of 250wb 2007 hull #926 ...

Edited by - on

jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2009 : 07:03:10

Your boat was designed to be sailed with the ballast tank full. Even with the tank full the boat is still very light, just over 4000 lbs. Should you sail it with an empty tank it will not only handle poorly, it will be unstable and unsafe. I suppose you could drop the sails, force the water out of the tank with a foot pump, motor to your friends house and fill the tank before sailing again but I'll bet even that is not a good idea.

Joe '98 WB Gracie

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2009 : 07:33:46

Sailing without the ballast the boat was designed around is inherently dangerous. Sailing with a partially full tank is even more dangerous. Motoring in either case is only slightly safer. Here's another thread on it http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19189& SearchTerms=empty,ballast,tank

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2009 : 08:04:48

When I've run aground in soft stuff with my cast iron keel, I've generally just pivoted myself around 180 degrees to get back to deeper water. Except for the huge cloud of muck I stir up with my keel, no harm, no foul.

Is the retracted centerboard capable of handling the torsional forces exerted when running aground or when trying to unground oneself?

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2009 : 17:02:53

I sailed a water ballast McGregor 26-D for two years. I sometimes motored out to the race vicinity before opening the water ballast valve. Stability was not a problem with the sails down. After all its just a 200 pound (more or less) mast sticking up compared to a 2200 pound boat. I never tried sails up with no ballast. The Catalina 250 WB hull is heavier and has about the same mast. From my experience, even though limited, I do not believe there would ever be a problem for either the McGregor or Catalina 250 with the sails down unless conditions were extreme.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 03/08/2009 18:02:03

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2009 : 17:52:19

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2009 : 19:38:24

Raising any sail without full ballast is risking disaster. The C250 is IMHO fairly safe to motor without ballast with one very great caveat... no crew aboard for several reasons.

First, a captain has every right to risk his life but he has no rights to risk the health and well being of his crew... in fact a captains charge is to see after the well being of his crew.

Second, there have been several cases of McGregor water ballasted boats capsizing because they had no ballast and had several crew on the boat. I'd not risk that the C250 could do the same if several crew weighted one side of the boat.

Third, if one doesn't cause the death of others, he doesn't have to be worried about going to jail for manslaugter or taken to court and having his breaches sued off him.

Edited by - on

Silar_Phas
Deckhand

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Canada
22 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 16:50:51

Tanks for your reply , I would not raise sails at all , I just want to do about 150 feets whitout risking of touching the ground , so that would be :
put anchor at about 100 to 200 feets off the land , empty the ballast whit some pump and 15 min later ( I guess this will take 15 mins) lift off anchor and go in the waterway where my friend lives... which is about 400 yard into the land and off course get the tank full each time I go back to the lake

anyone had done this before and where could I have official info on that ?

It is probably possible since when we put the boat in the water I motor off the ramp to a safe place to get the water in to full the tank and the boat look really stable , off course less then when the ballast is in but still i cant see any differance in comportment , I mean it does move the same .

Edited by - Silar_Phas on 03/10/2009 16:55:07

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 17:22:33

I really don't like the idea of going about without ballast, but if you are alone and in such shallow water then it sounds ok. I think you would only benefit from about 2 inches though. Anyone here care to check on how much higher the boat floats without ballast?

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 17:57:35

Just curious, what is the procedure for putting a WB on a trailer? Is there any way to 'blow the ballast' before putting it on the trailer?

Edited by - Ed Cassidy on 03/10/2009 17:58:13

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 18:36:39

I know some guys here (Paul, BrintInUSA) uses a small 12V electric blower that he inserts into the forward vent tube. Presure is built in the WB tank and water is expeled. From my memory Paul wait about 15-20 minutes before seeing bubbles rise up from the side of the boat then closes the WB valve.

Me, I simply back up the trailer to the point that I see only the tip of the white trailer guide posts and motor the boat in till it gently hits the trailer bumpers. Attach the winch and reel it in. The valve is open by now, and when I haul her out she pees with great joy totaly uninhibited all over the ramp in front of everyone. Always fun to see the kids facial expressions who hang around the ramp looking at me like something was wrong (because of all the water pouring out). The whole operation is a 1 man job.

I already have an answer to the next bystander at the ramp who asks me what all this water pouring out is. I'll answer that it's our waste holding tank.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/10/2009 18:46:57

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 18:49:11

"I already have an answer to the next bystander at the ramp who asks me what all this water pouring out is. I'll answer that it's our waste holding tank."
I love Canadian humor (I lived there for 18 years).

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 18:50:15

Ed, There have been many discussions on this forum about "blowing the ballast" before pulling onto the trailer. Just use the search function.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 23:33:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 "I already have an answer to the next bystander at the ramp who asks me what all this water pouring out is. I'll answer that it's our waste holding tank."
I love Canadian humor (I lived there for 18 years).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Right, but in Canada that is really how they empty their holding tanks.

Edited by - on

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