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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Interior Lights - LED Ideas

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/09/2009 : 14:52:21

So hunting on "Deal Extreme" I found multiple possible solutions for interior LEDs, and since the dollar store ran out of headlamps (DANG!) I need a new source of LED arrays.

Here are the contenders - none "Marine" rated, none guaranteed not to burn your boat down, but all cheap, easy to install, and offering potential energy savings, and they should all fit inside the existing "domes" that catalina installed on the boat:

Item 1. ~ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5862
Item 2. ~ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15648
Item 3. ~ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12740
Item 4. ~ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12742

I am thinking I will order one of item #2. and one of item #4. run each of them to test for brightness, dispersion, and power consumption.

Whatever happens, I'm pretty sure these will represent a savings from the original lights, and they plug right into the light sockets.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2009 : 15:20:55

Does it come with all those connnectors for each one, and you just choose the one that fits?

Did you see any with red for night vision?

I'll be interested to see how yours work out, I've bought LEDs a couple of times for SL only to return them because they didn't fit in the enclosure.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2009 : 15:26:41

According to the buyers reviews, each pack comes with all the adaptors.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2009 : 20:16:50

I added red/white led fixtures in the main cabin (saloon) and replaced the bulb in the remaining fixtures with white leds from WM. Not the cheapest approach, but the results are a tremendous improvement in light and energy consumption. That is when I discovered that the lights were all wired with the center pin and switch at ground and the outer shell hot. It turned a quick improvement into a most of the day correction/improvement

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 09:52:20

The one thing I dislike about the white LED's is how they light up the inside of your boat so it resembles the inside of a Walmart. One thing you can do to overcome that effect is to use an amber prescription bottle to fashion a lens to change the light to a yellowish glow. I tried it on a light I have and it makes for a more acceptable color.(IMHO) Other plastics can be used as well as LED's give off very little heat unless overdriven by higher than rated voltages.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 10:19:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 The one thing I dislike about the white LED's is how they light up the inside of your boat so it resembles the inside of a Walmart. One thing you can do to overcome that effect is to use an amber prescription bottle to fashion a lens to change the light to a yellowish glow. I tried it on a light I have and it makes for a more acceptable color.(IMHO) Other plastics can be used as well as LED's give off very little heat unless overdriven by higher than rated voltages.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You might contact your local theater group and ask where they get their lighting "gels". The gels are now made with mylar and withstand high heat. The choices are extensive and it might take some experimentation to find a pleasing color. The most widely used brand is "Roscolux". There is also "neutral density gel" that does not impart a color it just lowers the intensity. It comes 3-4 shades.
The gels are easily cut with scissors and can be neatly taped in the fixture.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 11:32:22

Catalina Direct had a new LED fixture on their website for about $20 that has both white and red bulbs and is about the size of the current, round fixtures in the main cabin. It looked like a nice unit.

Paul

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 11:35:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 The one thing I dislike about the white LED's is how they light up the inside of your boat so it resembles the inside of a Walmart. One thing you can do to overcome that effect is to use an amber prescription bottle to fashion a lens to change the light to a yellowish glow. I tried it on a light I have and it makes for a more acceptable color.(IMHO) Other plastics can be used as well as LED's give off very little heat unless overdriven by higher than rated voltages.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Many LEDs are now sold in varying "temperatures". Watch for the words "cool" for the "bluish" color LEDs that most of us are familiar with. The "warmer" temperatures have a very near incandescent look to their color. I prefer these over the cool lights.

I do like the cool lights for the transom and anchor light, but use a warm light for the steaming light, deck light and in the cabin.

Do not try to use a white light behind an exhisting red/green bow light. It will not be bright enough. Get a new fixture for the bow that has a clear lens with separate red and green lights for the inside. "Never" use a green light behind a green lens or a red light behind a red lens. It blocks the light from getting through.

See the bulbs I used on my website.

OK?

Edited by - Turk on 03/10/2009 11:37:41

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 12:51:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do not try to use a white light behind an existing red/green bow light.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Too late. I actually updated my whale eye lights to super white LED's last year. The red lens works great and can be seen for miles. The green lens however glows bright blue. I am still pondering the cure for that. One thought I had was to get a bottle of green fingernail polish and darken it up to see how it reacts. I have an extra set of lens to experiment with

.
[url="http://www.ledlight.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=53645"]24 LED Light[/url]

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 13:33:20

I replaced the cabin lights with LED 24's from "eBay Motors" that arrived by mail from China. Like Dave B, I needed to reverse the polarity of the circuit in each fixture. I could have also reversed the wires at the switch panel.

I've added a rectangle from a yellow plastic "file folder" as a color filter to change the cold blue-white light to a warmer white.

These lights can stay on for weeks without draining the battery.

Edited by - JohnP on 03/10/2009 20:20:13

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2009 : 19:48:23

I just ordered lights a few days ago to test from LEDlight. One light was a replacement for the 90 bulb, the other for the 1156.

When I can launch Ill see how they look, until then, I'll test to see if they turn on.

I am curious to see if the green is green and red is red with the white light behind the lens.

Best
Deric

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2009 : 13:26:48

I just got the Shipping notice from DX that the LEDs I ordered are on their way. The shipping tracking shows them as in a terminal in Hong Kong. Looks like I will have results to share in a week or so...

Edited by - Prospector on 03/13/2009 13:28:36

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2009 : 20:16:50

Keep us in the loop!

Paul

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2009 : 09:07:31

Well, a package from Hong Kong is waiting for me at the post office...

I'll try to have a full report on Monday.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 12:56:05

Seems crazy to have to reverse the contacts.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 20:26:32

Yes, it does. But the way Pearl was wired, the lights were always hot and were turned on by switching the ground contact. Having the bulb holder hot with switch to put the pin to ground does not seem right, but I haven't researched proper wiring to confirm.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5361 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 22:33:28

While switching the ground or neutral lead (white) is definitely a safety hazard for 120VAC systems and will put the building inspector's knickers in a twist, it really does not matter in 12VDC wiring. This is because there is no shock hazard with 12VDC, like there is with 120VAC. The 120VAC receptacle is still "hot" in this case.

Good wiring practices for 12V systems, however, do stipulate that you switch the +12V line rather than ground. If you were so inclined, you could rewire the light socket so that the switched wire is connected to +12V and the unswitched lead is wired to ground.

But, other than being the "correct" way to do, the light will not work better or worse either way....

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 23:55:03

I wasn't concerned about a shock, but having the bulb socket and several inches of bare copper strips in the fixture hot is begging for corrosion to provide a path to ground and a persistent current leak. I am more content with my switched + lead and the larger surface at ground.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 23:59:19

And true, it only matters with LEDs. Probably 12v flourscents?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5361 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 22:19:43

I see. That could be a problem.

Speaking of 12V fluorescent fixtures, I was very surprised to find out that both WM and Defender offers an 8 inch 12V fluorescent fixture for about $120.

I was in my local Kmart and found a similar fluorescent fixture that takes 8 AA batteries (12V) for about $8.00.

If you open it up, inside you'll find a pair of springy copper contacts that accept the (+) and (-) ends of the batteries. I just soldered up a red and a black wire to them, and LO I saved myself about 112 bucks.

Maybe the gold plating on the "nautical" fixtures accounts for the diff?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 08:08:56

This weekend I installed the Deal Extreme (DX) LEDs in the boat.

What a difference.

Now fixtures in the boat Include:
the dollar store LEDs
the Catalina Original Incandescent
the DX 20 LED Array
the DX 12 LED Array

I put the 20 LED Array in the Quarterberth, and the 12 LED Array in the V-Berth.

The LEDS each came with little adapters to fit festoon, bayonette, and socket style bulb holders. None of the adapters fit the sockets in the boat. Also the connector between the LEDs and the adaptors let go on one of the lights.

Since the connectors and adaptors were kinda useless I soldered one lead to the socket and the other to the lead to the socket. Each installation took about half an hour from openeing up the light to putting it back together.

When I put the dollar store LED in I was very surprised with how dim it looked thorugh the lens. Now I am going to trash it. The DX LEDs are WAY brighter, a warmer colour, and fit the fixtures better. Also, by soldering them to the switch, I can go back to the incandescant bulb should the LEDs let me down in the future. These LED's are very thin, and put on a printed circuit. I think the total thickness of them is around 1/8"

The 12 LED array ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15648 ) fits perfectly on the reflector circle in the back of the existing fixture. It comes with a peel & stick back on it, so attaching it to the fixture is quick and easy. It appears about equal in brightness to the incandescant, but is a whiter/blueish light.

The larger array ( http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12742 ) is brighter than the stock bulbs, and is still whiter/blueish, but not as much as the smaller array. It comes with a clean back, but has 2 pieces of double-sided adhesive. Since it is a larger printed circuit, and is flat, it wanted to pop off the adhesive until I applied heavire pressure. I suspect it will eventually come loose and will have to be glued in by other means (hot glue gun??)

I am trying to arrange a get together with a friend who is a photographer to use his light meter, an dspectrum to put a finger on the quality of light coming out of each bulb. If I do I will give you guys more feedback.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 21:20:12

Looking forward to pics of the install. Did you figure the power drain (millie amps)

Paul

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2009 : 08:05:18

Yes paul, I traced that to the shore power charger. At the moment it is unplugged. Since I have unplugged the charger, I have been using the solar panel to maintain the batteries.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2009 : 20:39:14

I ordered, and then placed, a few of the superbright LED lights for my cabin.
I will order the warm LED light of the same model to test.

The superbright light is in the Galley light fixture, and the port locker light fixture. I am interested in placing the warm LED light above the cabin table and perhaps in the berths.

Once I have both types of LEDs, I shall upload pictures.

http://www.ledlight.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=34344

Deric

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 08:07:33

Deric, those look a lot like the LED emitters on mine, except that mine were on a card instead of around a stick. It will be interesting to see the difference.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 08:15:29

Deric, did you try the 180º LED in the cabin light fixture above the table? Curious to know how that works out.

I've been looking for a suitable replacement, but so far none of the bayonent LED lamps I've tried fit the housing (they are tooo fat to near the bayonent fixture, so they won't insert deep enough to be retained by the bayonet slots.)

Paul

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