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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 250 Specific Forum
 Self Tailer Overwraps		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts
Initially Posted - 03/27/2009 :  11:45:47  Show Profile
Has anyone found a reasonable solution to the over-wrap potential on the self tailing winches? It seems to me that the jib sheet fairlead is too high resulting in an improper lead angle. Lower profile fairlead? Raise the winch. (Don't want any more holes in boat).

Thanks,

Don
Don Moser
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts
Response Posted - 03/27/2009 :  12:47:36  Show Profile
Overrides don’t seem to be unique to self-tailing winches, or to Catalinas. They happen with all makes and types of winches and boats. The best way to avoid them is to only put two wraps on the winch when you prepare to tack. Then tail the sheet during the tack. Then put a third or fourth wrap on the winch just before you cleat it. It also helps to avoid overrides if you handle the sheet so that you always keep a little tension on the line during the tack. If you pull the sheet too fast, the winch spins, and, if the line becomes slack, it can climb up on itself and cause an override. By keeping constant tension on the sheet, you keep each wrap in alignment. If the line goes slack during the tack, a coil can jump or fall out of alignment, and then, when you pull the sheet tight again, it becomes snarled on itself. When the helmsman bears off onto the new course and loads the sail, it becomes nearly impossible to unwrap it.
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts
Response Posted - 03/27/2009 :  13:14:19  Show Profile
Overwraps are often do to the lead angle being too high. There is a fairly tight range of angle that is recommended (5-8 degrees). Depending on the car that you use on the jib tracks the angle may be too much. There are "winch pads" that can go under the winch to raise it a bit. You could make your own from teak or HDPE ("Starboard") as well.
Edited by - Nautiduck on 03/27/2009 13:16:33
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DJAnderson
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts
Response Posted - 03/27/2009 :  14:53:18  Show Profile  Visit DJAnderson's Homepage
The overwrap problem does seem to be worse with the stock 250 geometry compared to other boats I've sailed. A few additional solutions to consider:
<ul><li>Start with only a single wrap. Even just two will tend to override if the load is light. </li><li>Catalina Direct offers a low profile block/car -- don't know if it's enough to make a diff, though. </li><li> Personally, I don't even use the winches that much anymore. I put a couple of cam cleats with fairleads next to the winches and just run my jib sheets directly through them. They are so quick to use that I can generally snap my 110 across to the new tack before the wind fills the sail. Yeah, if it's blowing hard or if you're trimming on a reach or something the winch is the way to go, but I don't seem to have the overwrap problem under those conditions.</li></ul>
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 03/27/2009 :  21:55:07  Show Profile
Like DJ, I like a single wrap on the winch while hauling the sail over on a tack, and then quickly whipping another wrap or two before I start to trim. It's that initial haul that seems to cause overwraps. If you still have the problem, you could add another car on each side so you have one to control the angle to the sail (for shaping) and one to hold down the lead to the winch.
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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts
Response Posted - 03/27/2009 :  22:10:39  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage
DJ... cam cleats do work well with a 110 but I'm not sure they would with a 135
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 03/28/2009 :  12:55:22  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart</i>
<br />DJ... cam cleats do work well with a 110 but I'm not sure they would with a 135<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I suspect with my C-25 135, a cam cleat alone would jam so hard you couldn't release the sheet... or it would break. I used a cam off the winch, leading the sheet under a horn cleat to the cam, and even then it would get pretty tight.
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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts
Response Posted - 03/31/2009 :  00:37:24  Show Profile  Visit AADIVER's Homepage
I solved the override problem with two $2.52 each ss eye straps, port and starboard, outboard of the clutches. I lead the jib sheets down through them and angle up to the winches. No more overrides.
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moserd
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts
Response Posted - 03/31/2009 :  11:55:21  Show Profile
Doesn't this add a lot of friction? How did you mount the straps; through bolts?
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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts
Response Posted - 03/31/2009 :  14:19:24  Show Profile  Visit AADIVER's Homepage
[quote]<i>Originally posted by moserd</i>
<br />Doesn't this add a lot of friction? How did you mount the straps; through bolts?

None at all. The straps are large enough for both sheets, the main one and the self-tacker. I simply screwed 'em in. I'll post a pic.
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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts
Response Posted - 03/31/2009 :  14:56:27  Show Profile  Visit AADIVER's Homepage


The starboard strap. Note the increased angle; no overwraps anymore.
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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts
Response Posted - 03/31/2009 :  15:03:25  Show Profile  Visit AADIVER's Homepage
Here (hopefully) is a larger image:
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