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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Why anchor over the transom's not such a good idea

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2009 : 14:45:15

[url="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hS6PqL0gP6nqbWGEj4Eniq8hJeygD976FVS86"]NFL players deaths caused by improper anchoring.[/url]

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 15:05:15

"Around 5:30 p.m., they went to pull up the anchor and head back to port, but the anchor was stuck. Bleakley suggested they tie it to the transom and use the boat's motor to pull it loose.

When Cooper tried to thrust the boat forward, the vessel became submerged and capsized, tossing the men overboard. They tried to upright the boat without success. "

Clearly not a great idea.
Anchoring over the transom is not recommended however...
When single handing, pulling the anchor up and into the cockpit can be safer than going forward to pull the anchor up, especially in a blow or in close quarters when you need to stay by the tiller.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 15:45:11

And easily managed by tying a bowline with the eye around the rode and the bitter end led aft to the cockpit.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 15:53:47

Exactly.

I've read about guys anchoring in rivers over their transom while fishing. Generally they never get the chance to do it again. I also saw a special some time ago about boating accidents & they showed some scientists out on a river trying to collect samples for something. Having the anchor over the bow was a problem for some reason, so they decided to anchor over the stern the next time. Fortunately they all had life jackets on, and how the camera man managed to keep filming while being swept overboard & downstream was beyond me. The boat swamped & sank in probably less than ten seconds from when the anchor grabbed. They tried to cut the line, but there was no time.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 16:35:54

I don't think you need to worry with a 9hp engine on a 25' sailboat. But for sort of a simulation of what a lot more power can do with a rode connected to a stern deck cleat, click "E-tech Challenges" and then "Tug of war" on the left side of [url="http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/"]this page[/url]. Note that the weight of the engine completely turtled the boat. Makes you wanna be a powerboater, right?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/27/2009 16:40:31

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 16:57:04

Point well taken, I doubt that my little Tohatsu could bury the stern of our boat, but I bet it could get exciting in some of the tidal flows we have here.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:08:57

The tragedy of this incident was the classic failure to weigh values. The anchor line should have been cut. They were pulling up because of the storm coming, when the anchor didn't come up they should have cut the line and ran.

(And of course that was a stupid small boat.)

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:39:11

Yep, far-far better to bitch about losing that expensive anchor while you're having a beer in the bar, than never getting the chance.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 21:11:40

And on the positive side, every year the Evenrude/Johnson line moves the ectec into smaller engines. Maybe someday there will be a light weight, fuel injected 9.9.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2009 : 23:14:27

You're comparing apples to oranges. The little boat they were in was 20 - 22 feet with one of those low transoms with a cutout.

Yes, they were stupid, and didn't know what they were doing.

Yes, it was tragic.

No, it should NOT be a reason to not use a stern anchor on a C25 - with CAUTION.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 11:41:03

I often set a bow and stern anchor on my C25 to prevent swinging in a tight cove. Yes, I have had to cut my rode and abandon anchor and chain to the bottom.

Those low freeboard, transom cutout, big outboard, lightweight center consoles are dangerous. Every couple of years we have one or two turtle and sink somewhere at the local islands.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 09:13:41

My Oyster shucker in Panama City Beach tells a similar story with a large commercial fishing boat which ends with the declaration, "and I've worked in the bar business ever since."

We re-access our safety procedures every time we go offshore.

I don't like expensive anchors.

Cut the line. Have a knife accessable that can cut the line.

I have a light runners belt with a neoprene pouch to hold my cell phone that I wear. I have the marine radio in a holder closer than my beer holder. The Waterproof portable marine radio has a lanyard.

Get a reef anchor.

Putting a transome anchor on a catalina 25 has just about nothing to do with putting a transome anchor on a power boat. Knowing the difference is understanding the seamanship of a given boat design.

It is not a great place for an anchor, but it is appropriate in many conditions.

Either way, cutting the line is kinda like pulling a gun, you really need to be a quick draw.

Scuba divers have the same ability. A dive knife on the boat is not a bad idea.

I think the government should subsidize the anchor manufacturers and sell them cheep, and sell a buoy you could attach to the line when you leave an anchor. We'd have an automatic fishing buoy system for safer fishing.

The sport divers could move them for fun.

It is a horrible story. We put a man on the moon before we put wheels on luggage. I always think there are better ideas out there.

IMHO

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 18:59:01

(And of course that was a stupid small boat.)

50 miles out in a 21' boat. yikes

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2009 : 20:27:00

There's a diver guy at our lake who pulls a lot of abandoned anchors every year and sells them, giving us an inexpensive source for anchors. Apparently there are a few popular coves and boaters who are too laze to go in and retrieve their anchor when it gets caughtunder a rock, etc.

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HeelinPatrick
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 10:58:17

On the bow, I assume most just clete off the anchor rode on forward most bow cletes. Does anyone use the ring that is located on the front edge of the v-hull, about half way up from the water line. This is the ring that would be used for winching the boat to the trailer.

It would seem to makes sense to use this ring to tie the rode, from the point of view of lowering the point of connection of the anchor rode (better length to depth ratio with same amount of rode), and also the point of connection is closer to the center of the boat (to mitigate effects of the bow jumping up and down and trying to pull the anchor loose.

Of course, it's a bear to reach down to that ring. Also, I don't know if that ring is rated for use like that.

Any input?

Thanks!
Pat

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 11:11:46

I don't know if there are concerns about the strength of the ring, I do know that I'd never use it to anchor with. If nothing else, I don't want to have to hang over the bow of the boat to retrieve the anchor line, and certainly not to cut the line if the boat was in some sort of jeopardy. I installed a bow roller last year that makes it far easier to raise & lower the anchor.

As far as increasing the length of your rode by lowering your attachment point by two feet or so, I'd rather let out some extra rode.

I think your idea about lowering the point of attachment to reduce hunting may have some merit. I'm planning on trying out my storm jib as a riding sail this year to see if that'll work to reduce it.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 11:50:57

Isn't the best way to lower the rode angle with a kellet/weight?

Edited by - pastmember on 03/30/2009 11:51:35

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2009 : 23:04:18

Practical Sailor tested kellets and summarized the result by suggesting that they were helpful in normal conditions with short scope, but offered no benefit in high wind/waves. I, too, thought the trailer/bow eye would be a better location to secure an anchor until I actually tried to reach it in calm conditions. The cleats with a bowline on a bight seem a more sane system

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 09:03:09

Iffin I was offshore Ive used the bow eye. I'd added additional backing blocks to one on a previous boat. Then I could attach the bitter end of a big anchor and long rode I had in the aft locker, ready to deploy.

I have not rigged my catalina 25 like this as I'm on an inland lake, but I still have the biggest anchor in the back.

I also had a clip on line with an additional line to it with a ring to run a sea anchor for drift fishing, and the additional line with ring made it easy to retrieve.

I keep the sea anchor and line ready below in any boat I go offshore in.

I would guess that the bow eye was pretty well laid up with backing blocks, although Ive never inspected the one on the Catalina 25.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 03/31/2009 : 14:46:54

Considering that it is designed to winch the boat onto the trailer and hold it down while going over 60mph bumps, I think the deck cleats would fail before the boweye.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2009 : 11:12:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 And easily managed by tying a bowline with the eye around the rode and the bitter end led aft to the cockpit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dave - I'm not understanding this technique...what is the goal...would you mind explaining a little more? Many thanks!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2009 : 12:27:39

The factory backing was a teak block which has rotted on thousands of our boats.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 07:28:17

This is an interesting thread. The last time I became aware of anything that was bad involving something off the transom was in the movie "Jaws" - - yeah don't tie your big great white shark off the back of your boat -- no kidding.

Now, I am learning about anchors off the transom, which prompts me to think there could be many more bad ideas pertaining to the subject of: Don't Do Off The Transom.

Deric

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 10:13:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Now, I am learning about anchors off the transom, which prompts me to think there could be many more bad ideas pertaining to the subject of: Don't Do Off The Transom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't pee off the transom without having a god grip on the rail.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 20:41:07

The mistakes were obvious. However, the mindset underlying it all was the REAL cause. The overpaid athlete should have gone into the nearest West Marine and said "What do you have that will save my butt if everything goes WRONG out there?" And they would have sold him a $1000 self popping GPS toting EPIRP that would have had a helicopter out there in an hour or so. Even one of those Breitling watches (SHINY!) with an EPIRB in it would have saved them....

End of rant.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 22:54:55

Amen! Cash was no where near the limiting factor. A combination of testosterone, ignorance, and youthful sense of immortality did them in. Sad.

Sarge out.

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