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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/09/2009 : 13:11:27

It makes a little more sense to move this discussion here to the Assoc. Business forum.

On the [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19535&whichpage=2"]“History” [/url]
thread, I wrote;

"It does seem that a dialogue needs to be engaged in that has at its aim to involve ALL the PAYING members in creating a vibrant and informative "International Association".

RANDY “Nautiduck” wrote;

Fair enough. So, John, how does one go about doing that?

…what would you recommend to reach out and include those members who you feel are under-served? How would you propose that we do that? I bet everyone here is open to ideas to expand the membership and value of this Association.

Note: Randy’s comments are shortened here, his entire comment is on the second page of the [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19535&whichpage=2"]“History” [/url] thread.

So…
Fair enough here goes.

First assess and use each of the means of communication that reaches the membership in the most effective way to bring the membership together.
The five means of communication are;

The Mainsheet
The Tell Tales
The Web Site
The Forum
Direct Communication

The Mainsheet
The Mainsheet is currently the only communication that reaches all the paying members.
At the same time it is read by the entire Catalina community therefore it has to present a public face of our Assoc. and cannot address internal governing issues.
It is a great place to publish our activities, members cruising stories, racing activities and recruiting officers in each years election cycle.
It lets the rest of the Catalina community know that our class of boats is vibrant and active and well sailed.
The "Fleet News" should be revived.

The Tell Tales
Some one commented that this “Assoc. Business” forum was a backwater.
Well…
The Tell Tales sits forlornly in the members area. The last Tell Tale was published in Sept. 2008.
The Tell Tales was/is the “members only” newsletter.
It is the only place to discuss the governance of the Assoc., inform the membership of the policies and inner workings of the Assoc. without having to put a glossy finish on it for non-members.
I belong to a couple of national unions with thousands of members and we receive our internal newsletters by e-mail. It should be possible to keep the members informed without snail mail and in a timely manor.
This should be a priority of the Secretary.

The Web Site
The web site is divided into public and “members only” areas.
It has a wealth of knowledge for both owners and potential owners including the brochures of the boats, photos, our current and past racing and cruising activities.
It was decided to keep much of the web site open so that potential owners could learn about and realize the value of our boats.
The members only area has our members discounts, I just got almost a full boat unit off a new motor, and the previously mentioned Tell Tales.
I always wince when I see a post asking why their foum password doesn't work on the web site. It shows how members has come to equate the forum as the Assoc., not a good thing.

The Forum
The forum has become a terrific asset to all C25/C250 and Capri 26 owners.
It is become a vast knowledge base for our boats.
It is open to any all surfers owners or not, sailors or not making it a value to all owners because curious people can find out about our boat here.
At the same time it is just a forum that, by it’s very nature, does not include all the members and is dominated by a few voices.
I am amazed and sometimes dismayed that some, including past leadership, have tried to reduce the association to the forum alone.

Direct Communication
E-mail and calls amongst and from the leadership and staff.
The years I edited the Mainsheet I made calls to all the Fleet Captains to get them to write short up dates of their fleets. It was the only way to get them to meet a deadline. Calls also went out to members who participated in the Nationals and to the cruisers who took their boats to interesting places.
I envision the leadership identifying potential Fleet Captains, race organizers and other members who can contribute to the Assoc.
This does happen but could be more organized and effective.

Second, The suggestion from our Commodore, that Association sanctioned racing should be opened up to get many more racers involved should be actively pursued and implemented as soon as possible.
This would effectively diminish the “Nationals”.

Excuse me for a moment…

…

Sorry I just wanted to get a helmet on a duck behind the couch before I say;

The “Nationals” should be eliminated in favor of regional Association sanctioned races.
IMO It would promote local fleets and strengthen the Assoc. as a whole. The “Nationals” are by default “regional” and this should be opened up to all racers that can get a group of members together to race every year without having to wait for a single "Nationals" to be awarded.
We have seen in the past how awarding the "Nationals" has been politicized hurting the Assoc. and drving members and fleets away from the Assoc.
Brick throwing may commence now.

So there you have it.
I think I want what all the members want an Association that remains strong and vibrant and serves the needs of all the membership.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 14:26:52

We've beaten this dead horse over and over but, since my boat is on the hard and I'm bored....

In the interest of discussion

The Mainsheet
Is an antique and should be eliminated. I think it is a waste of money. For those few that rely on it solely for their connection to the association, that's unfortunate. Would we lose paying members if it were eliminated? Probably. Welcome to the 21st century. Magazines are dying every day. The Mainsheet should as well. It is a cost that the membership shouldn't need to bear.

The Tell Tales
hasn't been published since September of 2008. I haven't missed it. I think it unlikely that others have either. The postage costs are, again, an unnecesary cost to the members. Anything that might be written there will appear in....

The Website
The de-facto communication tool of this and most other modern organizations.

Direct Communication
Certainly effective as you've described it however, I really don't see the value. I'm not sure what Jim and I might talk about but he's welcome to call me. Increasing the time commitment of the leadership will likely result in fewer folk willing to volunteer. Cruisers sharing stories already happens in the forum. Race organizers seem to be able to organize their races. Those interested in finding races seem to have little difficulty finding them. Cajoling members to "meet deadlines" for articles they voluntarily contribute is counter-productive. I imagine that you'll get them to meet the first deadline but probably never get them to volunteer to write agian.

Since I'm not a racer, I really don't care what happens to the nationals. At first blush, the regional concept makes a great deal of sense to me. But, I'll leave that to racers to worry about.

Would my ideas disenfranchise members? Probably. That's what evolution is about. Some will leave, some will come. Sad, but true. Again, welcome to the 21st century.

I respect your positions, John. I simply think they are outdated and, in some cases, wrong. I've said this before in dialogue with you: Reasonable people can disagree reasonably. The ball is clearly in your court to maintain civility.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 14:56:32

This thread would probably be better titled "Suggestions" than history but OK.

The officers are as we speak testing the new web site. We will soon have an outage when we switch over. The new site will give each member a personal area with a place to upload photos and a personal user name and password for the members-only area replacing the poor method we have today.

We've tried mass emails before and there are a couple of problems, some that could be addressed by technology. One is that we have bad email addresses on lots of people resulting in hundreds of bounces. Two is that I got a lot of replies saying "take me off your list - we don't want your spam". If people want to read the TellTales they know where to find them. Telltales have become the officer meeting minutes, the last published was Jan. 2009 but I just read and approved the next installment.

Unless someone volunteers for Tell Tale editor, that is all they are going to be since we basically have no content other than that. We never did. That is why I published my daughter's poetry. Our content is on the forum.

Many paying members want to opt out of the Mainsheet. We voted that down recently. It may come up again.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 15:23:58

John R, I have a couple of questions and I apologize in advance if you have already answered elsewhere else.

1. What made you become a member of this organization and renew your membership?

2. I don't believe you commented on the value of the Forums.

3. If the Mainsheet was no longer mailed which is costly as you state, how should the dues be spent.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, even though you said you are bored, I am sure you have better things to do.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/09/2009 15:25:24

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 15:24:25

John, thank you for your ideas. They all seem reasonable to me. Personally, I think the Mainsheet is a real asset and helps bond together all of the Catalina models. That is something this forum cannot do. I'm open to the idea of a newsletter that gets sent via e-mail. Many organizations do that in conjunction with a web site. I can also see, though, that it would be more work to accomplish. I am ambivalent about the racing scene but think your idea of regionals would make sense. I still think that a "Nationals" with a handful of boats from within a couple hundred miles is not much of a Nationals. I support anything, such as local or regional cruises, that gets our members in actual contact with one another. I am hoping to connect with some other C25/250/Capri25 sailors in the San Juans this summer.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 15:48:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 John R, I have a couple of questions and I apologize in advance if you have already answered elsewhere else.

1. What made you become a member of this organization and renew your membership?

2. I don't believe you commented on the value of the Forums.

3. If the Mainsheet was no longer mailed which is costly as you state, how should the dues be spent.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, even though you said you are bored, I am sure you have better things to do.
Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No, Steve, I really am that bored today.

20 days til launch!

Your 1st and 2nd questions get the same answer. I joined and continue to support this organization because of all the collective kowledge that is the forum. An archive of hundreds of years of sailing experiences is worth far more than the $22/year I spend here.

As to the Mainsheet, I would suggest that portion of the initial membership year dues would be spent on some sort of Association memento. It has been suggested before that a Burgee become part of the initial year's dues. In subsequent years, I would support the use of excess funds be used to promote sailing in some way. Maybe a scholarship fund for members. Maybe a learn to sail fund for kids. Maybe prizes for the various regional/national Association sponsored races. Or, maybe just a reduction in dues by the amount of the magazine. Please understand, though, that dues reduction is not my motivation for losing the Mainsheet but rather, I think it is just well past its prime. Obviously others enjoy it and I don't mind using my dues to continue to subsidize it if that be the consensus of the Association.

I would pay more than the current rate to continue my membership even without the Mainsheet. This Association has value for me.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 16:39:09

John, Next year I want you to give me a call and come to SoCal for a visit while you are down. Here we sail almost 365!

Steve A

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 18:09:13

John, I'm don't see why reactions to your suggestions should be interpreted as "bricks". The bricks will come when you refer to imaginary conspiracies and ulterior motives, particularly among the people who have tried against the odds to keep our Nationals going.

A few reactions from one of the "few" who "dominate" the forum...

Mainsheet: This mag devours about 3/4 of our dues. I think that's excessive and counterproductive to our association. I also think Catalina should be picking up most if not all of the cost. The real value is to them--developing brand loyalty and inspiring upgrades. It was nice to see there's an active C-34 group, but I wasn't interested in reading most of their articles, and I already knew what was published about the C-25/250 Association. (Catalina could also put a copy editor on it--it's weird to see so many spelling and grammar errors in a glossy publication.)

Telltale: I could see this going out by e-mail, but based on what Jim says, I can see some issues. Maybe that should be an option that members can specify on the site, or opt out of with a reply. (I hate to suggest something that involves a new, ongoing administrative task.)

Direct communication: This should be e-mail only, except when someone is invited to call.

Web site: The password issue was a mechanical one (Snitz vs. non-Snitz), and will be at least partially resolved. The forums, incidentally, are part of the site.

Forums: Rather than leaving people out, they clearly are the leading and probably primary reason for the membership we now have. We have about 600 members, and over 570 people have posted to the forums in the past year. Some unknown number just lurk here--some without registering. I admit I can't tell the correlation between forum users and paid members, but I suspect it's fairly high. The several owners I've known who weren't active in the forums were even less interested in the association. Back when I was lurking, before we bought our C-25, the forums were "dominated by a few" like Bill Holcomb, Arlyn Stewart, Derek Crawford, Steve Milby, and Leon Sisson. I and others greatly appreciated their attentiveness, patience, wisdom, and camaraderie. You've made it clear that you think I've overdone trying to pay that back over the past eight years...

National Regatta: (See, you just couldn't help yourself from impugning some unnamed volunteers who tried to accomplish what I call "the impossible.") But no bricks. I, too, was never convinced of the practicality of this as a way to crown the best racers in our midst. I suspect regional events would multiply the effort without addressing the fundamental issue--our boats don't move around easily, and many can't move at all. Most members would have to haul their boats even to a regional venue. How many of our local fleets even have more than one C-25/250 racer? Not Jim's in Mission Bay, as I understand it... Of the five C-25s where ours lived, not one raced. Our "racers" are widely scattered. The Capri 25 is the only true one-design boat in our association, and therefore has a substantial contingent of serious racers and some substantial racing fleets, but they've had their own show for years at the Wayzata Yacht Club (the largest fleet).

One complication is that, as I understand it, our charter requires us to award a National Championship. I offered an "outside of the box" suggestion for basing it on cumulative PHRF results from any members anywhere, but the "head-to-head" proponents weren't inspired. Fine--I'm just the Committee Boat, and not even on the committee.

Keep up the discussion, but let's avoid the veiled accusations. This should be about the future. We are where we are, and who we are. Also, how about a separate thread on Nationals vs. whatever. That's a complicated discussion all by itself, and should probably have its own visibility.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 12:37:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 We've beaten this dead horse over and over but, since my boat is on the hard and I'm bored....

In the interest of discussion

The Mainsheet
Is an antique and should be eliminated. I think it is a waste of money. For those few that rely on it solely for their connection to the association, that's unfortunate. Would we lose paying members if it were eliminated? Probably. Welcome to the 21st century. Magazines are dying every day. The Mainsheet should as well. It is a cost that the membership shouldn't need to bear.

The Tell Tales
hasn't been published since September of 2008. I haven't missed it. I think it unlikely that others have either. The postage costs are, again, an unnecesary cost to the members. Anything that might be written there will appear in....

The Website
The de-facto communication tool of this and most other modern organizations.

Direct Communication
Certainly effective as you've described it however, I really don't see the value. I'm not sure what Jim and I might talk about but he's welcome to call me. Increasing the time commitment of the leadership will likely result in fewer folk willing to volunteer. Cruisers sharing stories already happens in the forum. Race organizers seem to be able to organize their races. Those interested in finding races seem to have little difficulty finding them. Cajoling members to "meet deadlines" for articles they voluntarily contribute is counter-productive. I imagine that you'll get them to meet the first deadline but probably never get them to volunteer to write agian.

Since I'm not a racer, I really don't care what happens to the nationals. At first blush, the regional concept makes a great deal of sense to me. But, I'll leave that to racers to worry about.

Would my ideas disenfranchise members? Probably. That's what evolution is about. Some will leave, some will come. Sad, but true. Again, welcome to the 21st century.

I respect your positions, John. I simply think they are outdated and, in some cases, wrong. I've said this before in dialogue with you: Reasonable people can disagree reasonably. The ball is clearly in your court to maintain civility.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This leaves the forum as the "Association" I find that disapointing.
The forum is terrific but it is just a forum. There forums on many subjects but they cannot really serve as an association.
As stated above each of the means of communications we have is limited. I reread Pauls proposal for a much more interactive web site.
IMO It could bring the community together in ways none of our current communications can.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 22:03:30

Print media are one-way only, and hearken back to the problems that you, John, have decried--where a few made decisions you didn't agree with (and many others including me might not have, too). There was no give-and-take, and nobody knew who anybody was unless they went to the National Regatta--right??

This on-line environment is where issues are discussed openly, and where people get a sense of the feelings of the community as well as who the individuals in that community are. Those who choose not to participate in this, in my opinion, choose not to participate in the association. There is no even remotely comparable way to participate. It's like choosing not to go to a local town hall meeting and then complaining when local issues don't come out as you wished. If you aren't interested in getting in on the association dialog, you have no grounds for complaining about the outcome. Statistics are cloudy, but they suggest pretty strongly that the participation here is substantial and that the site and the forums are the reasons for most of our memberships.

Now, I don't mean to impugn anyone who chooses not to participate or who only lurk here. 90+% of C-25/250-Capri-25 owners have no more interest in this dialog than most of us do in some (imaginary) association for the cars that we own. A boat is a boat, and they like, or are ambivalent about, or don't like their boats, and that's the end of that. Others who I've been aware of look here from time to time, for possible topics of interest, but are not interested in going public by posting. The information in Telltale or Mainsheet is and always will be a microcosm of what's here, most especially because there's no "question-answer" opportunity--no dialog whatsoever.

In 2001, my father, at 85, believed he was the last person in his retirement community, and he suspected in the nation, to become acquainted with the WWW and e-mail. I'm gratified that I was able to help him to discover and enjoy a community of his own on the Internet not long before he died--a community based on multi-way, not one-way, communication. There is no comparison.

Am I ignoring those who only want to see a printed piece in the mail once a quarter? Maybe. If there's somebody in that category who has an interest in the activities, resources, and governance of this association, I'll be mystified. Snail-mail-based information, and one-way communication, is an anachronism. If you want to present a point of view but don't want any public response, do it in print and put it into the mail. We're past that now.

John, has anyone that you know of, besides yourself, complained that the association has become internet-centric? What alternative do they prefer? How do they propose to be informed, active participants--part of the dialog that any association needs and that you, yourself, have called for?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 23:25:21

I really enjoy the Mainsheet for the oportunity it provides to get a non-advertising glimpse at the other Catalinas, but for real communication, the website and forum really are the heart of the association. The enhanced website will probably improve that. Because of the interaction of the forums, I feel a connection with many other owners and would not hesitate to contact them if I were in their areas. I haven't raced for 40 years, so I will have no comment in that arena.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 00:03:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ...the website and forum really are the heart of the association. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And lets not forget the soul. Both make is as successful as it is.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 11:44:03

"John, has anyone that you know of, besides yourself, complained that the association has become internet-centric?"

The short answer is no, and that includes myself.

The issue is not about using the internet, as you see in the post above and my comment on [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19117"]Paul's thread "Members Upgrade".[/url] Unlike the skeptical comments on that thread, I wholeheartedly support an upgraded web site that is more interactive and useful to the membership.
The issue is the way the Assoc. functions.
This is a group of sailors that charge money for membership (approx. 600 members X $22 = $13,200) and elects officers who have the power to regulate and use that money.
To fairly elect those officers every (owner) member must have the means to run and participate in the elections.
At the moment the only means we have of doing that is the Mainsheet for the simple reason that it is mailed to every payng member.
I would prefer to see the Tell Tales, where internal business can be discussed, distributed to all the members by some, electronic or other means but that is not possible at this time.
The members should be able to hear, in a timely way what the officers are doing and planning.
The current leadership has opened up the officers meetings with the use of Skype and that is welcomed but as yet there is no communications with EVERY member other than the Mainsheet.
The efforts to reduce the association to just the forum are IMO destructive and severely curtail the ability of the Association to function in the best interests of all the members.

Underlined words are HOT links.

Edited by - Peregrine on 04/13/2009 12:43:12

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 13:10:30

Fine... I can no longer vote (as a DPO), but if I could, I wouldn't mind getting Telltale (or whatever) in e-mail. Jim B. says some do mind, and others haven't kept their addresses updated. (As Rosanne Rosannadanna said, "'Salways somethin'!") How about an annual or semi-annual e-mail to all, including:

1. The schedule for upcoming officers' meetings.

2. A reminder of the process for obtaining meeting agendas and minutes on the website.

3. The process for participating via Skype.

4. Recommendation to review, and if desired, participate in, discussions of current association topics on the Association Business forum, as some of these topics will likely be on an agenda.

5. A method for opting out of these e-mails or notifying the association of a new e-mail address.

As an empathetic secretary to some other associations, my objective here would be to minimize duplication of efforts and establish a single source of information so everyone can be aware of what everyone else is aware of. I think in turn for "pushing out" reminders, we can expect members to "pull" relevant information as they choose. We have enough trouble pulling together formal communications as it is.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/13/2009 13:12:38

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 17:10:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 [i]
To fairly elect those officers every (owner) member must have the means to run and participate in the elections.
At the moment the only means we have of doing that is the Mainsheet for the simple reason that it is mailed to every paying member.
The members should be able to hear, in a timely way what the officers are doing and planning.
The current leadership has opened up the officers meetings with the use of Skype and that is welcomed but as yet there is no communications with EVERY member other than the Mainsheet.
The efforts to reduce the association to just the forum are IMO destructive and severely curtail the ability of the Association to function in the best interests of all the members.
Underlined words are HOT links.[/navy][/size=2][/font=Comic Sans MS]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Elections, in the 2 1/2 yrs I have been a member, have always been via the forums. A notice re the election of officers is always made as a forum post. Anyone is able to run, with limited exceptions. I never have seen the Mainsheet used for this process. The members are mailed a ballot.
I have never seen the officers as open as this current bunch is. There is total agreement in that respect.
A notice has been made, not monthly, when the officers meet, which is the second Thursday of each month at 6pm PST. All members are not only allowed but are welcomed with open arms. The Treasurers Report is posted along with the minutes after each session in the Members Only Area.
If Members would like to see the agenda beforehand, I am sure the officers will have not trouble posting that information in advance to held decide if they would like to attend.
I believe this is one of the most "open" Associations that I know of. This is a web/internet based Association. Members meet primarily thru its forums, which I see nothing wrong with. Nothing is hidden and if members want change, all they have to do is express their opinions.
From the posts I have read, most are happy with the status quo. It is the officers who are trying their darndest to make things better.
I wonder what response from our members would be if a survey was taken re keeping the Mainsheet or not and if keeping should is be sent by mail or email. A couple of members have stated they would be ok with the Mainsheet being posted on our site or receiving by email and that the money used for membership instead be used to provide the members with an association burgee. Personally, I kinda like that idea. The Mainsheet costs, BTW, are a little over half of our income we take in from dues. If there are other ways to spend your dues, speak up. All ideas and thoughts are greatly appreciated and welcomed.
This great Association has been for, by and of its members, PERIOD.
However we communicate, lets keep it coming and open.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/14/2009 11:02:43

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 21:45:05

"I never seen the Mainsheet used for this process."

Check your back issues

"The members are mailed a ballot."

Oops...
You might want to check that statement as well.

The author is a forum moderator, think there is an agenda at work here?

Reducing the Assoc. to the forum leaves paying members out of the governing process.
Why would anyone want to do that?

Edited by - Peregrine on 04/13/2009 21:45:57

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 23:15:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PeregrineReducing the Assoc. to the forum leaves paying members out of the governing process.
Why would anyone want to do that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nobody does. Notices for the last election were mailed out in Mainsheet. Two years ago when Telltale was mailed (with ballots), I counted the ballots--electronic and paper. I could count the paper ballots on the fingers on one hand, with a few fingers left over as I recall. Efforts to reach out to non-internet members are yielding diminishing returns.

The "governing process" is governing an internet-based association. Mainsheet is the last vestige of the old-boy club, where no dialog existed and a few insiders got their pictures and words in print. It still exists because many Catalina models don't have vibrant, participatory associations like this. Correspondingly, our participation in the glossy, quarterly Mainsheet has been hit-and-miss, because we do.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The author is a forum moderator, think there is an agenda at work here?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Speaking for myself, I don't appreciate the innuendo. But I think I might be speaking for some others. The only agendas among our officers are to make this association better. Once again we can't conduct a discussion about how to do that without you impugning somebody's motives. That's certainly one way to get people to tune out from "Association Business"...

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 23:40:53

"Notices for the last election were mailed out in Mainsheet."

Exactly!!!
So there is no reason to say;

" I never seen the Mainsheet used for this process. " (piseas grammer not mine)

Unless one can't or doesn't bother to read the Mainsheet which is OK, but not if one sites it to to diminish it's value to the members.

Edited by - Peregrine on 04/13/2009 23:45:23

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 10:51:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 (piseas grammer not mine)[/i]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...but Peregrine's spelling.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 11:24:23

OK, I guess my memory is failing me. I do not remember getting a ballot in my Mainsheet but I know I got a ballot and completed it and mailed it back- the most important thing(that I didn't forget). I thought I got the ballot in a regular envelope. My mistake. If it came in the Mainsheet, it came in the Mainsheet. But a hidden agenda! Everything for you means something. Unfortunately, your interpretation of others motives are negative and sinister.
And yes my grammar was incorrect and I have since corrected. Thanks for pointing that important issue out for all of us to see. Paul, I use the spell check but can you please add a Grammar check for conniving people like me.

Steve A

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 11:38:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">please add a Grammar check for conniving people like me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You got it Steve.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 11:54:24

I don't keep Mainsheets, but as I recall, our association page in it had a notice of the election--not a ballot--and instructions for where to vote on-line. If ballots were mailed to everyone (?), I'm guessing (from what I witnessed a year earlier) almost none were used.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 13:14:35

Voting is on line and through this website only. Note - website NOT the forum. Remember we have a secure online ballot system.

Calls for nominations and notice to vote will be placed in the Mainsheet AND on the forum.

Don't like it? Vote for a new Commodore, vote in new officers, appoint new staff, rewrite the bylaws, put them up for a vote.

There are no ulterior motives. Don't believe it? Join our next monthly staff meeting. We are dropping SKPYE due to technical difficulties and going back to a regular telephone conference bridge.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 13:24:00

Dave, OK my memory is kinda coming back. But please don't hold me to anything. I belong to many organizations and I can't keep them all straight re procedural stuff like voting.
But I seem to recall a notice on our form regarding elections and the asking of volunteer officers. Those who were interested, like myself, posted a little intro about ourselves. Once it was closed we again receive on the forum a notice to vote and to log in using our special code and we voted on-line. Couple weeks later, we were notified on-line who the new officers were.
Actually, I personally think this is the best procedure voting online as it saves the members postage. As you stated Dave, most do not vote. I don't think it's because it's done on-line either. (That was probably bad grammar). But I do not want to make any interpretations why some do not vote. Others will do that for me.

So if there was a notice in the Mainsheet, sorry, it escapes me. I now hope this matter is cleared up, ad nausea.
Steve A
PS I was going to edit my signature to add: bad grammar user and devious one but thought as the Treasurer, it might be tacky.

Come on, I do have a sense of humor. As we all should. Life is too short and all we should really worry about is what time to return to port from sailing.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/14/2009 : 15:48:52

I thought that speller cheker thingy worked.

The call for nominations has been in the Mainsheet for awhile it is currently the only way to reach all the members.
But you can only lead a horse to water etc. Voter turnout has always been minuscule (did I get that one right?).
It seems the voter turnout only goes up if I run, to make sure some one else wins.
Maybe the best thing I can do for the Assoc. is run for every office.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 14:52:13

Do we have any metrics that would measure whether the Association members who do not use the forum actually care about the lack of printed material and the focus on the forum? How do we know that there is really a matter of substance here versus a matter of perception?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/15/2009 14:53:00

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