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Am I on the right track? (intro)

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NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2009 : 10:41:42

So this is my official "hello post" and reason why I'm here. I joined the site to look around and view my options a little more closely.

I'm looking for a sailboat. I'm not into racing.......(maybe?), but want a boat big enough to sleep 4, yet small enough to be trailered. I also read about the Catalina factory and aftermarket parts availability, so that also led me to the C25. It just seemed to be the right size and model.

Background:
My dad bought a Santana 21 back in 77, when I was born. We sailed it quite frequently back then, but less as they acquired more kids (4). I know the very basics, and can probably get the boat out there with no problem, but I'm still learning the language.

Anyways, I'm in no rush since I'm also closing on my first house June 1st. But I plan to buy soon afterwards. I've got my eye on a nice C25 but who knows if it'll be there in two months.
I'd like to hear your comments on my decision for the C25 and if it would be the one you'd chose in my situation.

1989 C-25 TR/WK #5894
Miss Behavin'
Sittin' in LCYC on Canyon Lake, Texas

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 11:16:32

Other than the whole spontaneous combustion thing the Catalina 25 is a great boat.
Derek, Johnathan is in San Antonio. Any C 25s available at Canyon?

Edited by - pastmember on 04/17/2009 11:17:35

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 11:38:01

Your decision is the correct one. I've owned my C-25 for twenty years and have never regretted the purchase. Add this forum into the mix and you can't miss.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 11:51:58

Right now I'm eyeing a clean 86 swing keel. Is there any particular year that would be a better choice? Anything I should ask the seller, or look at myself?
I plan to sail in Canyon Lake. Do you think I'd want a tall rig?

Edited by - NautiC25 on 04/17/2009 12:09:34

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 12:28:34

LAst year I bought a 1984 C-25 Fin Keel. Its been great. Learning powertools to care for it has been more eventful than learning to sail. The C-25 is very forgiving, and will simply head to wind if you screw up. Unless you screw up rigging/maintaining and then you can have bigger problems.

If I were looking for a trailerable I would probably opt for a wing keel over a swing keel. Less maintenance, and still trailerable. If I were buying again, I would go for the wing to get out of paying for a deep draft slip.

If you are sailing out of a club, the boats are easy enough to work on that anyone can lend a hand with the things you don't know. If you are on your own, this forum will answer 98.7% of your questions and make up lies for the rest.

Definately keep reading these forums, they are a great resource.

I am not a good judge since our C-25 is the only boat bigger than a canoe that I've ever owned, but I think it was agreat choice for a first boat for our family (2 adults, an 11 yr old, and a newborn).

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 13:26:43

Hello and welcome to the group. I love my C25 and would buy another in a heartbeat if I had to replace it.

Regarding trailerability, the C25 certainly can be trailered, but it's a bit on the large side and calls for a substantial vehicle. If you are trailering regularly, you might want to do some research to make sure the "trailerability" you have in mind is what you'll actually get with a C25.

My brother and I just launched my C25 this past weekend, and it took two hours from the time we got to the ramp to the time the bottom got wet (which I considered pretty good time).

My first day sailer, however, (a Capri 14.2) was truly trailerable and I was in the water in 15 minutes. Plus, I pulled the Capri 14.2 with a Dodge Neon (it weighed about 800 pounds with the trailer). I pull the C25 with a Suburban, and it weights around 7,000 pounds with the trailer.

If I didn't have slip and had to launch and retrieve every time I went sailing, I'd probably still have the Capril 14.2.

For the first year that I owned my C25, however, I did launch and retrieve everytime, but there was mast-up storage real close to the ramp. That wasn't too bad from a time standpoint, it only took maybe a half hour to hook up the boat and launch it, then the same in reverse. The heartburn I had was from the hillbillies in their powerboats who also used the ramp. The ramps where I sail are rediculously busy. My little reserviour is roughly 1 mile wide by 10 miles long (but because of a bridge, for sailing purposes it's only five miles long), and I heard a talk by the head of the State Park who said that our reservoir had more recorded boating accidents than any other lake in Ohio, with the exception of Lake Erie, so that gives you an idea of how busy it can get.

Anyway, I race in a Wednesday beer can type series, and it is a blast. I didn't race before, and kind of learned by doing, but our club is pretty laid back and let me get away with stuff serious racers would hollar at me for, I'm sure. I find that the C25 is actually pretty fast when raced against other similar boats in my class. Unfortunatly I'm the only C25 that races, but I race against C27s, Hunter 26s, some older Macgregors, and an old Hunter 25. so if you do decide to try racing, I hope you find it as enjoyable as I do.

Good luck and I hope you buy a C25.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 13:30:41

Welcome Jonathan!

Regarding your "situation", where do you plan to sail, and to what degree do you plan to use the trailer vs keeping her in the water? The C-25 swing or wing is a good choice for occasional hauling, but I wouldn't call it a trailer-sailer. Rigging, launching, retrieving, and unrigging are not what you want to do for a day or a weekend (very often). If that is your plan, try it before you buy. On the flip side, there aren't many real "trailer sailers" that sleep four. I'd even qualify the C-25 as sleeping two adults and two kids--or maybe four very close friends!

The wing keel replaced the swinger in about 1987. A few swingers have been retrofitted with wings, but they're rare. For shallow draft and trailerability, the wing is preferable over the swinger for just about anybody other than a racer--the swinger sails higher to windward, but requires maintenance that does not apply to the wing. However, wings will generally be priced higher.

Boats made starting in 1983 have a fuel locker in the cockpit--preferable to the earlier years with fuel tank shelves in the port-side sail locker (or "dumpster"). 1989 through 1991 (the end for the C-25) have many little improvements above decks and below, including a flat cabin sole and more headroom. They are the picks of the litter.

The C-250, which started production a few years after the C-25 stopped, is a rather different boat. The water-ballast model is lighter for trailering, and the boat is more contemporary in design, with an open interior, no exterior teak to worry about, an open transom for swimmers and such, and many other differences. Mast raising is probably a little easier. The wing keel is somewhat deeper than the C-25 wing. You might want to check out the C-250--there are generally a number of them on the market for not that much more than a 1989-91 C-25.

Stay in touch, and keep up the questions... We'll try to be honest!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/17/2009 13:34:57

Oksky
1st Mate

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Canada
40 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 13:31:32

When I was looking for my first sailboat I did my home work on the internet and found this site. The people were incredible with there help and suggestions and invaluable information. I was looking for the same type of boat specifications you are. I read an article on here about buying a Catalina 25 that I can't seem to find right now. I actually looked for the boat the article author said would be his ultimate C25. Found one and have had a great year of fun with it. As far as my opinion goes, you can't go wrong with a C 25 or this forum.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 13:34:00

Oh yeah, one more thing.

The first year that I launched and retreived each time, my C25 was a swing keel. Then that next winter I did the keel conversion to a wing. The reason I bring that up is that my experience is that retrieving with the swing keel is actually EASIER than retrieving the wing keel boat.

The reason, believe it or not, is I think because on my trailer the "tray" that the swing keel rests on when the boat is on the trailer served as a guide as I cranked the boat up to the trailer. As long as I got the boat fairly centered over the trailer, I'd crank the boat up the last bit, and the keel tray on the trailer would kind of center the boat for me. With the wing I had to buy "goal posts" for the sides of the trailer because it was about impossible to gauge if the boat was centered over top the trailer, and those goal posts still have their challenges.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 13:50:42

Visit my website to see all the things you can do in a Catalina 25. I've sailed mine well over 10,000 ocean miles.

http://www.indiscipline.org

The boat is a very good choice for your application. Swing or wing, doesn't matter too much since you're in fresh water. I'd say wing if you can find it.

The pop-top and pop-top tent is a must for a family of 4.

A good quality late-model xxl shaft 4 stroke motor of about 8 HP +- 2.

Goto this page and scroll down to "Shopping for a C25" for the article on what to look for. http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/tech/tech.asp

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 16:32:24

Thanks for the recommendations and the article. I tried to add all the info while I was at work, but forgot a few things. lol

As for storage, I'd like to be able to trailer it to different areas if possible, but it will mainly stay in dry storage at Canyon. Therefore, I'll be able to keep the mast up and just drop it in the water from there.
I'd like to head there friday and spend the weekend on it if the family likes it. If not, then I have friends that would. lol

The 89-91 option sounds nice as long as they aren't too pricey. I'll see how many of those are around.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 18:24:11

NautiC25,

Yes! You are on the right track!!!

All of the advice I received from the members on this site helped me purchase my '89 wing keel about a year and half ago.

I used to sail on Canyon Lake all the time when I was a teenager. There's usually good wind all year long. Not quite as good during the heat of the summer unless you go out in the late afternoon. Seems like the breeze always picked up just before sunset.

I sail on Galveston Bay now and miss the scenery and the clear DEEP water at Canyon. I usually see 6 - 9 feet in the bay not the 60 - 100' or more at Canyon. The steep ramp at Canyon Lake Marina should be good for launching and retrieving.

If you do end up trailering some, Lake Travis is not too far away and is an excellent sailing lake.

Derek Crawford lives in San Antonio and keeps his C25 (This Side UP) on a HydroHoist at Canyon Lake Marina. I'm sure he'll chime in soon and can give you some great advice on purchasing a boat.

Edited by - GaryB on 04/17/2009 18:24:45

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 19:25:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 The 89-91 option sounds nice as long as they aren't too pricey. I'll see how many of those are around.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">They're generally listed in the $10-12 range (some higher, by dreamers). By then, not very many were being built. They were getting to be too expensive for a 25-footer, and more costly than Catalina could charge. I'd rate them as one of the nicest 25-footers ever built. But for possibly half the price, the earlier vintages (like my '85) can be pretty nice, too.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 04:16:07

Jonathan,

Please remember: the boat is half your solution to sailing; the other half is the vehicle you intend to tow the boat.
I bought a swing keel because of the great price (value) and because I wanted to trailer it about.

My mistake was thinking that my old FORD Explorer would have no issue with pulling the boat. I had no intention of buying a heavy duty trunk that could handle the towing in my area - - yes we have lots of hills.

My solution was to tow it twice a year to the marina: there and back. I borrow a truck ( heavy duty with diesel engine to tow. Because I am merely bringing my boat to the marina and taking it back, nowhere else, I agree with those who consider the Catalina 25 a trailer able boat - - if I was on the floor selling the boat, then of course it's trailer able - - but in my opinion it is too heavy. Check your area to determine the slopes and distance, the access to the places where you would like to launch, and your vehicle capability.

I have found the swing keel is maintenance work, but at the lake where I sail, Oneida Lake, there are many shallow areas. The swing keel has gotten me out of some spots.

Good luck, and enjoy.
Deric

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 09:33:11

If I recall correctly the ramp at Derek's Canyon Lake marina is very steep.

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 11:19:51

Nauti,

Derek is DEFINITELY the resident C-25 expert at Canyon. Drop him an email or stop by his boat at CLM and he'll be more than happy to share some wisdom.

I kept my 250 dry slipped at CLM for six years. Dry slipping is MUCH cheaper than wet, as I'm sure you've researched. My 40' slip at Clear Lake is cheaper than they wanted for me to keep my 250 wet at CLM.

However, it is a bit of a pain to launch there for a couple of reasons:

1) As you know, the ramp is indeed steep and very long. I launched with a 4x4 Suburban and ate several sets of brakes over the years. It's really tough on them backing down to the water. Pulling out wasn't much of a problem as long as I was in 4x4 and in 1st gear.

2) Associated with that, the ramp is usually (always) dirty and slick. To my knowledge it has never been power washed. You often have some boat's lower unit oil dripping on it. Makes for an interesting ride down. Several times, with the brakes locked, I would be in a slow slide down to the water, knowing (hoping) that as the boat entered the water and the weight reduced the truck would stop before going in.

3) Unless they've repaired it within the last year, the launching dock was destroyed ages ago. Once you're off the trailer, you have to take it over to the courtesy dock and walk the long hike back around to your truck, unless you've got someone to drive it away.

Overall Canyon is a great place to sail. The fluky winds keep you on your toes and you learn a lot by having to constantly be on top things.

New house and new boat. . . glad someone is doing there part to keep the economy moving!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 16:20:29

Nauti,

I'm not sure where you plan to keep your boat but if it's at Canyon Lake Marina you MIGHT have one other option and that would be to launch on the other side of the peninsula from Canyon Lake Marina (by road maybe a half mile). I believe you have to pay to get into the camping area but there used to be a relatively short ramp on the east side of the peninsula and it might be steep enough to launch (not nearly as steep as the ramp by the marina).

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 20:03:52

Well, I have an "in" at the Ft. Sam park and marina. Dry dock is $30/mo. and $120 wet. Even still, I'll probably keep it dry. I don't recall the condition of the ramp, or if it's even under water right now with the lake being 12 ft. low before this weekends rain.

Right now we have an 06 Explorer and I'd really like to trade it in for an Expedition 4x4. Hopefully it would only be a $4k upgrade.

Well, today I took the family to The Sailboat Shop in Austin. I didn't know how everyone would react to boating, or sailing. So I wanted to show them the boats in person. They loved it! We saw a few 22's that were in stock. Then looked at a new Catalina 320 that I casually mentioned we could retire on. lol We were all in shock about how nice it was. And $140k? :O

But after today, I think I officially got them hooked and anxious to go sailing. "Selling" this plan to the family is what really mattered. lol

Edited by - NautiC25 on 04/19/2009 11:20:36

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 12:16:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 NautiC25,

Yes! You are on the right track!!!

All of the advice I received from the members on this site helped me purchase my '89 wing keel about a year and half ago.

I used to sail on Canyon Lake all the time when I was a teenager. There's usually good wind all year long. Not quite as good during the heat of the summer unless you go out in the late afternoon. Seems like the breeze always picked up just before sunset.

I sail on Galveston Bay now and miss the scenery and the clear DEEP water at Canyon. I usually see 6 - 9 feet in the bay not the 60 - 100' or more at Canyon. The steep ramp at Canyon Lake Marina should be good for launching and retrieving.

If you do end up trailering some, Lake Travis is not too far away and is an excellent sailing lake.

Derek Crawford lives in San Antonio and keeps his C25 (This Side UP) on a HydroHoist at Canyon Lake Marina. I'm sure he'll chime in soon and can give you some great advice on purchasing a boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd love to take it to the gulf a few times, and I remember when my dad got stuck in some shallow areas in canyon and Goose Island. But we simply pulled up the keel. Even though it would be nice to have a fixed, I think swing is the way to go for me.
Lake Travis seems really nice also. I wanted to check out the area yesterday, but ran out of time.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 04/19/2009 12:17:37

ed_spengeman
1st Mate

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USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 17:16:41

Great choice! Between this site and Catalina Direct it's like have a Catalina employee as a neighbor.
I bought my 83 swing keel-tall rig from a Lake Michigan boater and sail it on a resevoir in Indy. I love this boat. It's strong as a brick in some preety heavy stuff. As far as the swing keel, I love it. I check mine and the 1" pin had about a 1/4 inch of wear after
25 years of wear. If I were you, I would expect to replace the pin, the cable and the fitting where the keel hooks up to the keel-maybe $80 from Catalina Direct(get their catalog for $10 for prices and all sorts of useful info. Then just inspect the system each year. I shudder to think how many times my swinger got me unstuck.

Each year I truck to Lake Michigan or Lake Erie-5 hr drive in a half ton 4WD Sub. No real hills but pulls nicely. 3/4 ton would be better if you have mountains.

Make an a-frame per the site and you can set up with two of you in about two hours.

Edited by - on

ed_spengeman
1st Mate

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USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 17:21:29

Hit the wrong button b/4 I finished and edited.
Sailing across Lake Michigan in ten knots with Mars off the top of the mast and the bow wave back by the beam is orgasmic. Got caught in a storm with N winds and a fetch of 300 miles. We had to stay alert but it was great. The boat felt like a tank but stll agile.
I can't say enough good things about this boat.
Good luck and welcome aboard.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 08:08:26

Jonathan - if you intend to race on Canyon Lake (and I sure hope that you do), a tall rig is essential (there is only a 6 sec PHRF rating difference between the TR and the SR - and it is not enough). Our winds are usually around 7 - 10 knots (although this winter/spring we've had to abandon 4 race dates because of wind in the high 20's).
Currently, as you know, the lake is at record low levels (down 13') and launching could get difficult. Slip fees for a C25 are $256 per month...
The best bargain on the lake is a membership in the Hill Country Yacht Club at $25.38 a month.
If you are coming to Canyon anytime soon (with or without a boat) I'm there most weekends in slip B31 - or just ask anyone there to find me. I hope to welcome you and show you around soonest.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 08:31:28

Jonathan - One more thing... I am sure you have heard it a dozen times already, but be sure to get a really good survey. And be there when its done.

Ask the surveyor loads of questions and have him check for moisture around everything that penetrates the deck. Pay for the haul-out or put-in and take the boat for a sail, and take a look at it out of the water. You need to be sure that the boat is safe and proper for you and your family. They want to go sailing, but you will spend a lot of time fixing things.

Remember any repair job that starts with the phrase "You just have to..." should be changed to start with "It will be a pain in the butt to..."

I love the C-25, and I think you are on the right track, it is a GREAT boat. We have learned gobs of stuff on it, and I would advise anyone to buy one as their starter craft. But don't go in with a daydream.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 14:15:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Jonathan - if you intend to race on Canyon Lake (and I sure hope that you do), a tall rig is essential (there is only a 6 sec PHRF rating difference between the TR and the SR - and it is not enough). Our winds are usually around 7 - 10 knots (although this winter/spring we've had to abandon 4 race dates because of wind in the high 20's).
Currently, as you know, the lake is at record low levels (down 13') and launching could get difficult. Slip fees for a C25 are $256 per month...
The best bargain on the lake is a membership in the Hill Country Yacht Club at $25.38 a month.
If you are coming to Canyon anytime soon (with or without a boat) I'm there most weekends in slip B31 - or just ask anyone there to find me. I hope to welcome you and show you around soonest.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the reply. I was really having a debate on TR vs. SR for Canyon Lake. I'm glad I got an experienced opinion on it to settle the decision. TR it is.
As for racing, I really just want to take the family out however, I race and build cars quite a bit, so it will probably carry over to the boating world.

I'll definately take you up on the offer for a visit when time allows.
Thanks.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 15:13:57

Not trying to talk you out of anything, Jonathon, but be aware that the tall rig boom is a foot lower than the standard rig. The sail has a 3' longer luff length, but the mast is only 2' higher. The standard rig boom swings over the heads of people under 6' (standing up), while the tall gets them at about the neck. That also means less height for a bimini, although some TR people have them--you just can't walk under them.

I don't think Derek's lost anybody to his boom yet... Every boat's a compromise.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2009 : 15:28:40

"I don't think Derek's lost anybody to his boom yet..."
Dave, that's because the only time I yell on the boat is "ready about, heads down, lee ho"

Edited by - on

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