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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Mystery boat

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2009 : 14:01:30

Friends:

Vicki and I are looking at a new (to us) boat. We've been window shopping for a larger boat in that way you do when you're not really planning to buy for a while but you're getting ideas about what you like and what you don't. Monday we were in Deltaville looking at a C310 (which I really like, but is too expensive) and a C30 (in great shape and a great price, but it doesn't make my heart sing). Two boats over was a 30' sloop I'd never seen before. When I asked what it was, the salesman said, "That just came in: it's a TMI 30." A what?

Texas Marine Industries. 48 boats made between 1979 and 1981. The design is by Halsey Herreshoff, was originally the Chrysler 30, then when Chrysler sold off its marine division two Chrysler execs founded TMI in Plano, TX. Two years later the molds were acquired by a Canadian firm and the boat became the Ticon 30 for a few years before they, too, died in the great 1980's sailboat shakeout.

The boat is . . . amazing. Huge below decks, fully fitted out, I can stand in the head without bowing at 6'3". Great equipment, fin keel, repowered (Westerbeke 3-20B) three years ago with 25 hrs. on the engine. Gorgeously kept by a couple who didn't sail at all last year. Price is . . . ridiculously low.

Here's one of the few links to one online: http://www.boat-world.com/boatads/1030416522.html Here's a Ticon 30:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1983/Ticon--2068463/Penetanguishene/Canada

So, what's the catch? Who in the world has heard of TMI? The equipment onboard is standard stuff -- Harken, Lewmar, Westerbeke, etc. . . so all that can be replaced when needed. There are just precious few references online to this boat, largely because they were so few. I'm asking you folks to ask your sailing buddies if they know anything about the TMI/Chrysler/Ticon 30. Does the keel (cast lead with SS bolts to a reinforced sump) fall off? Does it sail like a barge or a witch (one of the few reviews claims low 30 degrees apparent angle on the wind)? Does the deck (deck and hull hand-laid, hull solid, deck sandwich, joint 5200 with SS bolts) develop gaping holes? You know -- is it a turkey or a windfall?

Perhaps most important, Vicki says, "I LOVE this boat!" I wasn't even planning to buy for another couple of years, but she really really likes this boat. So, if you know someone who knows someone who knows something, pass it along. I even emailed Halsey Herreshoff himself to ask (no reply yet).

If we take the plunge, I'll let you know that "Even Chance" is available. If you know someone with C25 fever in the Chesapeake area, I doubt there are few better kept models around.

Thanks for any help on this mysterious and alluring boat.

Brooke Willson
Deltaville, Virginia
Catalina 25 SKTR # 5050

Edited by - Even Chance on 05/19/2009 14:17:30

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2009 : 20:01:19

Well Brooke... a classic case... The Catalina 30 is the "safe", logical choice because it's ubiquitous, and the builder is still vital. The TMI/Chrysler is virtually a one-of-a-kind, I suspect, on the Chesapeake. 30 degrees apparent is meaningless--do they mean 30 degrees true? My C-25 could sail at 15-20 degrees apparent, which translated to a around 45 true depending on wind speed. The best measure of this is the "tacking angle"--generally relative to 90 degrees--which indicates your true pointing ability.

But let's get back to the real issue. If Halsey Herreshoff designed it, it can sail! Get a sea trial NOW, then get a survey, and then go with your gut! Having your admiral as a cheerleader is priceless! Just remember that selling a TMI will be even more problematic than buying one. But if this one is as good as you suggest after about 30 years, she'll probably be good for a few more.

Edit: What's in the forepeak of the TMI? The Ticon's cross-over berths are unusual--I'll assume the Canadians came up with that...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/19/2009 20:11:23

Turk
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 03:38:54

Here is a thread I found about someone who owns the boat. Also, an exerpt from a response in the thread.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/52316-help-tmi-30-a.html

TMI 30 aka Chrysler CY30, aka Ticon 30
Friend used to have a Ticon 30. TMI is pretty much the same boat designed by Halsey Hershoff. Here is info from the Ticonderoga website

THE EARLY YEARS
The Ticon Yachts, T-30 started life as the Chrysler Marine, CY-30. For many years, the Chrysler Automotive Corporation (Daimler Chrysler) has been involved in the marine engine business. In 1957 Chrysler entered into the boat industry, manufacturing a line of fiberglass fishing and recreational boats. In 1965, Chrysler purchased the Westbend Company and got into the outboard motor business. The Chrysler Marine Division introduced its first sailboat in 1971. During the 70's the Chrysler sailboat product line continued to grow from small day-sailors to larger trailer cruising boats and eventually, the CY-30 "Osprey" model. The famous marine designer, Halsey Herreshoff was commissioned by Chrysler to design it's larger cruising line of sailboats. Chrysler's boat manufacturing operation was headquartered on International Parkway, in Plano, Texas. I have been unable to determine how many CY-30s were manufactured and sold under the Chrysler name.

During the late 1970's The Chrysler Corporation experienced financial problems that eventually resulted in a US Government bailout of the company. During these troubled times, Chrysler found it necessary to divest itself of outside interests, including it's Marine Division. In 1980 Chrysler sold the Sailboat Division to Texas Marine International. Chrysler continued to make outboard engines until 1984, when it found a buyer for that division.

It has been reported that TMI's Texas facility manufactured and sold approximately 48 boats between 1980 and 1981, before Ticon Yachts took over the TMI/CY-30. It is not known how many of these were the 30-foot TMI models. My research does indicate that a number of the 30 foot sailboats were manufactured under the Chrysler and TMI names prior to the Ticon Yachts T-30 model. The production numbers remain a mystery. By the mid 1980's TMI sold off the remainder of the smaller Chrysler sailboat line to Wellcraft Marine who for a time manufactured them under it's Starwind Division. Wellcraft eventually sold most of the small sailboat rights to Glouchester Yachts.

THE BIRTH OF THE TICON

In 1981, Ticon Yachts, Ltd., under the control of Mr. David de Eyre, purchased the rights to the CY-30 / TMI-30 from Texas Marine Industries. The first Ticon 30's were produced in Oakville Ontario, Canada. In 1983, Mr. De Eyre struck an agreement with Kelt Marine to manufacture the boat at Kelt's plant in Aurora, Ontario. It has been said that the quality of the T-30's improved significantly following the move to Kelt Marine. For the most part, The Canadian T-30's were produced on a per-order basis. Many were semi-custom boats with special colors and small optional interior modifications. An estimated (35) T-30's were produced during the tenure of Ticon Yachts. 1983 Ticon Yachts also started production of T-27 Sloop designed by Mark E. Swanson. The design was similar to the T-30 and proved to be a very popular edition to the Ticon Yacts sailboat line. A limited number of Bruce Kerby designed T-34 Cat Ketches were produced. Another Cat Ketch, the T-44 was under development when Ticon closed down operations.

Unfortunately, Ticon Yachts was one of the many corporate victims of the "Great Sailboat Shakeout" of the late 1980's. Ticon's extensive use of teak and the semi-custom, labor-intensive, interior design was not conducive to the profits that cost-effective "production line" boats could provide. Many small to mid-sized sailboat companies could not compete, and had to close their doors. Sadly, one of the finest designed and well manufactured line of cruising boats was lost forever.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 03:52:07

Thanks, Dave. I can't find the "low 30's quote" I read -- thinking about it, you're absolutely right, and the writer probably meant true. "Apparent" was my interpolation, not the writer's.

I can't remember whether the peak is a straight vee or the crossover, but I think I would have noted the crossover. Actually, I think the crossover is a brilliant solution to the "toesies" problem in a v-berth. We're going back to look this weekend, and I'm taking a camera and a tape measure. Vicki's mildly claustrophobic, and probably wouldn't sleep in the vee anyhow. She liked the huge quarterberth on the TMI, but we'll measure the dinette to see if my carcass fits in it when it's made into a double. Because of her claustrophobia, the enormous and airy saloon of the TMI is hugely important.

Turk, thanks -- I had already found those links. That's why I'm looking for some anecdotal information. I just found a guy in Norfolk who actually lives on a TMI 30 -- we're in the process of emailing.

We'll see . . .

Edited by - Even Chance on 05/20/2009 03:55:21

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 05:44:06

Sorry, no anecdotal info, just a comment. The Yachtworld link you listed has a picture of the crossover V-berth set-up. Very interesting, indeed. Perfect set-up for 2 children, or guests. Looks like a well-built boat. Awesome that the admiral loves it!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 06:55:02

Brooke, my only experience with Chrysler sailboats was with a Chrysler 26 and a Chrysler 22, owned by friends. Both were designed by Halsey Herreshoff, and both were nice boats (especially the 26), and they sailed very well and were competitive racer-cruisers. The 26 had an appealing layout, and, if the 30 is in good condition, and the price is right, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to own one.

The following link will take you to a Chrysler owners' association website: http://chryslersailing.lizards.net/sail_right.html

This link will take you to a page within that site that provides a little basic information about the 30: http://chryslersailing.lizards.net/sail_c30.html

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/20/2009 07:08:56

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